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Thread: Yuvraj Singh

  1. #16
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    Originally posted by sachintendulkar
    He should replace chopra...chopra is a slow scorer(not that it is a bad thing) but he always gets out at low scores beside 1 or 2 times he plays good.but then India will lack an opener
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  2. #17
    World Traveller Craig's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Yuvraj Singh

    Originally posted by Mr Mxyzptlk
    Chanderpaul and Hooper both captained Guyana to rave reviews and neither could captain West Indies.
    Digging up this thread, but why couldnt Chanders captain WI?
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  3. #18
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    even though i'm getting a bit of track....what's this Anti Ganguly Club??? i'm officially their number ! supporter.....if the founder is in need of any donations, they should talk to me! i'd be only to glad to help!
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  4. #19
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Richard
    Exactly - he is a good player. One who has a record which more than holds down a Test place.
    No one is denying that. I would love to have Yuvraj in the test team but there is simply no room. Chopra may not have the best average but right now he is the best option India have to open the batting which is a very important role, and Yuvraj is not an opening batsman. The only solution could be moulding Patel as an opener as Blewy said, and then slotting Yuvraj in at 7.
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  5. #20
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yuvraj Singh

    Originally posted by jamesryfler
    Maybe so...but isn't every captain unproven then until he takes the reins at international level ?
    No.
    There is no difference in the rules for domestic and international cricket. So for the same reason that most players who outperform their peers at domestic cricket will outperform them too at international level, captaincy skills are the same at each.
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  6. #21
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    again..you dont seem to take into account the added factor of pressure and intensity at international level..some players dont cope with this at all well..and yet some others (two examples being David Gower and Bob Willis) thrive in the international arena,and did relativly poorly in domestic cricket..the same can happen with captaincy, there is a huge difference between captaining a domestic team and an international team
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  7. #22
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Bob Willis did relatively poorly at domestic level, now, did he? So 899 wickets at 24.99 (with an economy-rate of 2.8-an-over) is poor, now, is it?
    Not to mention the fact that it's better than his international record.
    For every example of someone who failed at domestic level and succeeded at international level or vice-versa, there are many examples of those who did well at both.
    The old crap about "added pressure" meanwhile cuts no mustard - as I've said countless times, when you're in the middle, everything else disappears. The best players don't let anything bother them when they're doing what they do best.

  8. #23
    International Regular twctopcat's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Richard
    Bob Willis did relatively poorly at domestic level, now, did he? So 899 wickets at 24.99 (with an economy-rate of 2.8-an-over) is poor, now, is it?
    Not to mention the fact that it's better than his international record.
    For every example of someone who failed at domestic level and succeeded at international level or vice-versa, there are many examples of those who did well at both.
    The old crap about "added pressure" meanwhile cuts no mustard - as I've said countless times, when you're in the middle, everything else disappears. The best players don't let anything bother them when they're doing what they do best.
    And you've been in the middle during a test in front of thousands and possibly millions on tv have you?? You're looking at it a bit scientifically aren't you, things aren't as black and white as you make out. It's just some people "appear" to be under more pressure than others, perhaps that is the difference between the good and the bad.
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  9. #24
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Richard
    Bob Willis did relatively poorly at domestic level, now, did he? So 899 wickets at 24.99 (with an economy-rate of 2.8-an-over) is poor, now, is it?
    Not to mention the fact that it's better than his international record.
    For every example of someone who failed at domestic level and succeeded at international level or vice-versa, there are many examples of those who did well at both.
    The old crap about "added pressure" meanwhile cuts no mustard - as I've said countless times, when you're in the middle, everything else disappears. The best players don't let anything bother them when they're doing what they do best.

    well in response to what you have said about Willis.....Warwickshire fans always had a major gripe with Willis, why can he perform brilliantly at test level but not for his county...go ask any Warwickshire supporter from the late 70's and early 80's.

    the reason was, that he thrived in the pressure situation that test cricket provided, he upped his effort levels.

    Some people (Hick) didnt thrive under such conditions. Hick was a major talent (probably the most talent county player we have seen for 30 odd years), but get him in a pressure situation where you have Ambrose coming in from one end,Walsh from another,then Bishop etc...or whoever, Hick generally buckled under the scrutiny of millions of eyes watching his every move.

    The game isnt as black and white as you make it out to be, that is why cricket is the number one sport in my opinion.

  10. #25
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Well, then, it seems Warwicks fans of the '70s and '80s have misplaced misgivings.
    Maybe he didn't produce 8-fors when the opposition was chasing 100-odd for Warwicks, but he still did better for them than for England. That's fact. Hence, the argument is bust.
    I personally dispute very strongly that Hick was a major talent, probably the most talented county player we have seen for 30 odd years. I would say that he had one major flaw in his technique that was exploited by the best bowlers - county or international. I don't think it was anything to do with being unable to handle pressure at all. In fact, the fact that he was such a brilliant ODI player, a game that attracts even bigger audiences than the Test game, hammers that home even more for me. It was nothing temperamental whatsoever - it was all about a technical shortcoming.
    Any player who's played the game in front of big audiences will tell you that none of that matters at all when you get into the middle - it all disappears. Tendulkar has said it countless times - if he genuinely worried about the pressure of a billion people's hopes hinging on him, far from not being able to play, he'd probably have committed suicide by now.
    The game isn't black and white - but nor is it 4294967296 shades of grey or 4294967296 different colours. As some would have you believe.
    Anyway, the basic point of the matter is, for every example of someone who failed at domestic level and succeeded at international level or vice-versa, there are many examples of those who did well at both. Aside from the "pressure" stuff, this is what matters.

  11. #26
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    Originally posted by Cactus
    even though i'm getting a bit of track....what's this Anti Ganguly Club??? i'm officially their number ! supporter.....if the founder is in need of any donations, they should talk to me! i'd be only to glad to help!

    What?? What the hell u on about?? You have to get through me first!

  12. #27
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Richard
    Well, then, it seems Warwicks fans of the '70s and '80s have misplaced misgivings.
    Maybe he didn't produce 8-fors when the opposition was chasing 100-odd for Warwicks, but he still did better for them than for England. That's fact. Hence, the argument is bust.
    I personally dispute very strongly that Hick was a major talent, probably the most talented county player we have seen for 30 odd years. I would say that he had one major flaw in his technique that was exploited by the best bowlers - county or international. I don't think it was anything to do with being unable to handle pressure at all. In fact, the fact that he was such a brilliant ODI player, a game that attracts even bigger audiences than the Test game, hammers that home even more for me. It was nothing temperamental whatsoever - it was all about a technical shortcoming.
    Any player who's played the game in front of big audiences will tell you that none of that matters at all when you get into the middle - it all disappears. Tendulkar has said it countless times - if he genuinely worried about the pressure of a billion people's hopes hinging on him, far from not being able to play, he'd probably have committed suicide by now.
    The game isn't black and white - but nor is it 4294967296 shades of grey or 4294967296 different colours. As some would have you believe.
    Anyway, the basic point of the matter is, for every example of someone who failed at domestic level and succeeded at international level or vice-versa, there are many examples of those who did well at both. Aside from the "pressure" stuff, this is what matters.
    in the early days, Hick was brilliant vs almost all types of bowling, I seem to remember him murdering a WI attack for about 170 in no time at all before he qualified for England...I do think he lost some of his abilty due to confidence problems.

    ODI's are considered by many players as ten a penny, test cricket is that more tense as in reality that is what most teams are striving to win...anyway,the rules of the game in ODI are more heavily favoured towards the batsman (short pitched bowling) so Hick could be fairly certain he didnt have to worry about getting out to a ball hurtling towards his head, unlike in tests, where you never really know if the ball is going to be short, on a length or full pitched. For another example of this, see Bevan.

    Anyway...I think you will find that the majority of Willis' wickets in domestic cricket were before he was a major player in test matches. After playing international cricket on a regular basis, his performances in county cricket were no where near as intense as they were in international cricket.

    same with david gower, he rarely put in a good year at county level, even before he was picked to play for England, and yet as soon as he was picked to play for England, he smacked his first ball for 4 and never looked back.....but even after that...he didnt perform brilliantly at domestic level.

    Those players thrived in the pressure cooker environment of test cricket..some player do...others dont

  13. #28
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Hick did indeed score a 172 against Patterson, Ambrose, Walsh and Bishop in 1988. No-one really knows how well they bowled that day. If they bowled like they normally did, it would have been some innings.
    Your second paragraph, meanwhile, backs up exactly what I had just said - Hick's failings in Test-cricket are nothing whatsoever to do with "pressure", simply differences in laws and situations, and difference in neccesary techniques. And very few players consider ODIs "ten-a-penny", because you get far more pennies for ODIs than Test-matches nowadays. And even if they were, it doesn't alter the fact that Hick succeeded in one and failed in the other.
    If you want to believe that about Willis, fine, but I'll wait until I get some statistical evidence before believing it. Nothing alters the fact that he did better overall domestically than internationally.
    As for Gower, did I ever dispute that he was poor in domestic cricket? No. He was one of the few players who did better in internationals than in domestic games. However, these players are anomalies in the trend, they do not make-up the trend.

  14. #29
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    taken from cricinfo...about Bob willis

    '......But it was for England that he saved his best performances'

    he only took 350 wickets for Warwickshire in thirteen seasons

  15. #30
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Nonetheless he took them at a damn good average.
    Don't judge a bowler by how many wickets he took, judge him by how cheaply he took them.
    Otherwise Walsh would be better than Marshall. Indeed, he'd be better than Holding, Garner, Roberts and Ambrose, too, and I don't think he was in any of those cases.

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