Predict your test XI in 3 years time.

[hendrix]

Did Henry ever dominate youth cricket?

 

[Bahnz]

Don't think so. He didn't make his u19 team anyway, though that was a strong year (2010 - when Milne also missed out).

I would argue that Henry absolutely is a swing bowler. From what I've seen of him that absolutely is his main weapon.

 

[hendrix]

Would you say he's more of a swing bowler than Southee or Boult, who despite being swing bowlers are also our best old ball bowlers?

By this I mean if we had a Southee clone we should pick him as third seamer anyway...

 

[Bahnz]

Would you say he's more of a swing bowler than Southee or Boult, who despite being swing bowlers are also our best old ball bowlers?

By this I mean if we had a Southee clone we should pick him as third seamer anyway...

I'd say he's roughly where Southee and Boult were at, at his age - that is still heavily new ball reliant. Southee and Boult have since improved and its reasonable to assume that Henry will as well, but if he doesn't have the benefit of bowling with the new ball to help him, then the road will probably be tougher.

Again, I really like Henry and fitness permitting think that he'll definitely be in the mix.

 

[Flem274*]

Why is he reliant on the new ball?

 

[Immenso]

Christ, surely you could restart one of the other several hundred threads on Wagner v upcoming NZ seamers.

It's been done.
Leave this one unsullied.

 

[Bahnz]

Because his pace drops away after his first spell, and without swing and pace he's a pretty bog standard 135k bowler. I've yet to see evidence that he generates any reverse, though it's possible that that's due to NZ playing conditions, and the two balls used in ODI's. Still, once the big swing is gone he's a less potent bowler as the tools that he has left are somewhat limited. Now this is likely to be less of an issue in NZ and England, because the ball can swing until the 70 over mark there - hence why I was for him being selected in the recent SRL series. But in other places I suspect that he may become meat and drink for decent batting lineups after the first session.

 

[Bahnz]

Christ, surely you could restart one of the other several hundred threads on Wagner v upcoming NZ seamers.

It's been done.
Leave this one unsullied.

As long as people are civil I see no reason not to discuss this issue in a thread about the future make-up of test sides.

 

[hendrix]

Because his pace drops away after his first spell, and without swing and pace he's a pretty bog standard 135k bowler. I've yet to see evidence that he generates any reverse, though it's possible that that's due to NZ playing conditions, and the two balls used in ODI's. Still, once the big swing is gone he's a less potent bowler as the tools that he has left are somewhat limited. Now this is likely to be less of an issue in NZ and England, because the ball can swing until the 70 over mark there - hence why I was for him being selected in the recent SRL series. But in other places I suspect that he may become meat and drink for decent batting lineups after the first session.

135 and a good line and length is pretty much the peak of third seamers around the world at the moment.

re: reverse swing: if you can conventional swing, you can reverse. There's really no secret to it.

 

[Bahnz]

135 and a good line and length is pretty much the peak of third seamers around the world at the moment.

re: reverse swing: if you can conventional swing, you can reverse. There's really no secret to it.

Yes, which is why guys like Junaid and Rahat are such maestros with the new ball.

 

[Flem274*]

We haven't really been given a chance to see how clever Henry is with the old ball because no one cbf watching that much PS vault footage.

When there's no reverse Southee's use of the crease, his variations and probing in the channel makes him our best old ball bowler by a distance.

 

[hendrix]

Yes, which is why guys like Junaid and Rahat are such maestros with the new ball.

If all Bs are A, does that mean all As are B? even aside from that, no one is a maestro with the new ball in the UAE.

 

[Bahnz]

We haven't really been given a chance to see how clever Henry is with the old ball because no one cbf watching that much PS vault footage.

When there's no reverse Southee's use of the crease, his variations and probing in the channel makes him our best old ball bowler by a distance.

I watched some of the footage from the wellington v canty game. Henry was hitting a decent length, but not doing much else and the right-hander he was bowling to on day 1 was handling him pretty comfortably. He had the lefty in trouble a couple of times with some lbw shouts (can't really tell how close they were though).

 

[Bahnz]

If all Bs are A, does that mean all As are B? even aside from that, no one is a maestro with the new ball in the UAE.

You must admit though that it's a tad simplistic to say that just because a bowler can swing it, therefore he can reverse it as a matter of fact. Maybe strictly true, but the degree and consistency of reverse that a bowler can generate tends to be highly variable. For all his dickery, Blocky was right that Boult tends to be quite inconsistent as to when and how much reverse he generates - he got nothing in the first half of the UAE series, but was able to generate a bit of shallow reverse in the later stages of the 2nd test (still nothing compared to the shape that Rahat was getting in Dubai).

 

[Flem274*]

I think that was Boult learning more than anything else. If it had been on and off all series I'd be more inclined to believe it but as it is it's pretty inconclusive.

Cheers for the vault feedback.

 

[cnerd123]

Plz clarify if you mean reverse swing or just contrast swing.


Reverse is very hard and requires bowling at the right speeds, with the right ball condition, and the right seam presentation in the right conditions. Some bowlers get it, some bowlers don't.

However, all bowlers can get contrast swing, although again to varying degrees.

 

[hendrix]

You must admit though that it's a tad simplistic to say that just because a bowler can swing it, therefore he can reverse it as a matter of fact. Maybe strictly true, but the degree and consistency of reverse that a bowler can generate tends to be highly variable. For all his dickery, Blocky was right that Boult tends to be quite inconsistent as to when and how much reverse he generates - he got nothing in the first half of the UAE series, but was able to generate a bit of shallow reverse in the later stages of the 2nd test (still nothing compared to the shape that Rahat was getting in Dubai).

I admit nothing!

Pakistan are better at scuffing up the ball and keeping it dry to facilitate reverse. I also think Rahat simply bowled better than our bowlers for most of that series, and had a touch more pace which made his swing later. Reverse tends to go later than conventional, so every extra bit of pace makes you that much more lethal. Southee was reversing it in the first test but he was severely underdone and was bowling a good 5-10ks slower than he was in the West Indies. The results was gentle in swingers which are pretty easy to deal with.

 

[Riggins]

Plz clarify if you mean reverse swing or just contrast swing.


Reverse is very hard and requires bowling at the right speeds, with the right ball condition, and the right seam presentation in the right conditions. Some bowlers get it, some bowlers don't.

However, all bowlers can get contrast swing, although again to varying degrees.

I hope this gets back into some good old Magnus Effect related posting.

 

[cnerd123]

Basically, contrast swings to the shiny side. Reverse swings away from it.

The science of swing bowling | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

You guys probably know what you are talking about but many people don't and I always feel the need to correct and make sure everyone understands the differences when the topic of reverse swing comes up.

 

[Riggins]

Reverse doesn't swing away from the shiny side.