Keith StackPole: AUS need a finger spinner

[Richard]

... and Hogg is averaging, what, 89 in Pura Cup cricket this season.
Sure, that's really suggestive of a Test-class bowler...:rolleyes:
And Tendulkar struggles against left-armers no more than any normal batsman.

 

[Craig]

And now has been dropped.

 

[iamdavid]

IMO Xavier Doherty is the best finger spining prospect in Australia , he's not your average finger spinner (ie Hauritz).
Has decent control (well better than Casson at least) , his ability to flight the ball is superb , he makes it dip perfectly & gets some nice drift in to the right handers.
He gives it more of a rip than the usual finger spinner & the fact he bowls a little slower means he generally still gets some pretty nice turn.

What impresses me the most is the attitude , he's a fighter , he'll always be throwing it up & always looking to buy a wicket , he'll never just dart it in like some cough*Giles*cough left arm spinners do.
He's a superb thinker , has a lot of ability & is potentially a pretty handy bat.
Absolute rubbish in the feild , but Im a big fan & I reckon he'll play for Australia within 5 years.

 

[Tom Halsey]

He'll never just dart it in like some cough*Giles*cough left arm spinners do.

For all that I don't like Giles, I still admit he flights it.

 

[iamdavid]

"flight"

ahem

Throwing it up at 85 kph at the leg stump with 5 men on the onside dosent count , that is negative bowling , waiting for a mistake rather than trying to attack , that is what Giles does.

 

[Neil Pickup]

"flight"

ahem

Throwing it up at 85 kph at the leg stump with 5 men on the onside dosent count , that is negative bowling , waiting for a mistake rather than trying to attack , that is what Giles does.

*did

Bowled much more positively this winter.

 

[KishanTeli]

Surely Warne can't go to pieces 3 series' out of 3?

Nothing is sure in cricket, you should know that by now. IMO Sachin has got as good of a chance to take Warne apart again this time, Warne will have alot to prove after his return and the spotlight will be on him in spinner friendly conditions.

IMO Australia don't have any specialist fingerspinners whose ability significantly outweighs Lehmann's. There is no point picking a specialist spinner if you have a batsman who can do almost as good a job.

I personally don't rate Lehmann as much of a bowler and I don't think the Indians will either. He is likely to get a few wickets but at a high-ish cost. I fully expect Lehmann to get the same treatment as Macgill got. As Macgill said "It's not as if they don't know what I'm bowling, it's just that they don't care!"

 

[Richard]

(Giles) Bowled much more positively this winter.

Real shame people have to say that.
Giles bowled no differently at Galle and Kandy to how he normally does (and he bowled absolutely darn terribly at Dhaka and Chittagong). He simply got pitch conditions that helped him. When he has these he is a very good bowler. When he gets conditions like those at The SSC, he isn't.
It really is simple, I have the way people complicate it.

 

[Richard]

IMO Xavier Doherty is the best finger spining prospect in Australia , he's not your average finger spinner (ie Hauritz).
Has decent control (well better than Casson at least) , his ability to flight the ball is superb , he makes it dip perfectly & gets some nice drift in to the right handers.
He gives it more of a rip than the usual finger spinner & the fact he bowls a little slower means he generally still gets some pretty nice turn.

What impresses me the most is the attitude , he's a fighter , he'll always be throwing it up & always looking to buy a wicket , he'll never just dart it in like some cough*Giles*cough left arm spinners do.
He's a superb thinker , has a lot of ability & is potentially a pretty handy bat.
Absolute rubbish in the feild , but Im a big fan & I reckon he'll play for Australia within 5 years.

I don't dispute anything about this post except the most important part - he can't give it more of a rip than Giles, for instance, because unless he's got abnormally long fingers it's not physically possible.
And if you can't turn the ball, you can have all the flight and attitude you want, but good batsmen still won't get out to you.
He certainly won't play for Aus if his current record continues.

 

[Richard]

Nothing is sure in cricket, you should know that by now. IMO Sachin has got as good of a chance to take Warne apart again this time, Warne will have alot to prove after his return and the spotlight will be on him in spinner friendly conditions.

Well, I just think laws of averages state that such a good bowler can't bowl as poorly as he has in the same country three times out of three. It would be too much of a coincidence.

I personally don't rate Lehmann as much of a bowler and I don't think the Indians will either. He is likely to get a few wickets but at a high-ish cost. I fully expect Lehmann to get the same treatment as Macgill got. As Macgill said "It's not as if they don't know what I'm bowling, it's just that they don't care!"

Lehmann is far more accurate than MacGill.
All right, even on a Sri Lankan or Indian wicket he won't turn it like MacGill will in Australia, but a bit less turn and a lot more accuracy is a worthwhile exchange.
IMO Lehmann in Sri Lanka is a better bowler than MacGill anywhere. And this applies to many fingerspinners.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Lehmann is far more accurate than MacGill.
All right, even on a Sri Lankan or Indian wicket he won't turn it like MacGill will in Australia, but a bit less turn and a lot more accuracy is a worthwhile exchange.
IMO Lehmann in Sri Lanka is a better bowler than MacGill anywhere. And this applies to many fingerspinners.

Very true IMO. I really don't rate MacGill. He bowles 5 dots, building pressure, and the bowls a 40 m.p.h. long hop outside leg. He takes wickets, but at a high cost.

 

[KishanTeli]

Well, I just think laws of averages state that such a good bowler can't bowl as poorly as he has in the same country three times out of three. It would be too much of a coincidence.

It is that Warne has bowled poorly, or Sachin has batted well? I would chose Sachin has batted well because as soon as Warne has come into the attack Sachin has gone after him and not let him settle, much how Sehwag did to Macgill.

Although I do agree that the laws of averages will prevail sooner or later, if this not this time then next time.

 

[Cloete]

It is that Warne has bowled poorly, or Sachin has batted well? I would chose Sachin has batted well because as soon as Warne has come into the attack Sachin has gone after him and not let him settle, much how Sehwag did to Macgill.

Although I do agree that the laws of averages will prevail sooner or later, if this not this time then next time.

very true. put simply sachin has outplayed warne. if warne were to have come back last year and australia toured india the same year i would say warne would be odds-on to win. great bowlers don't have be outplayed without ever getting revenge. and with saching being horribly out of form i think warne would have hid him. but it's difficult. because i'd still rate sachin out of form as good. sachin currently is somewhat unstoppable however. warne will just be thankful his first tour is sri lanka and not india i guess.

 

[Richard]

Warne's last tour to Sri Lanka was very impressive and conditions in Sri Lanka tend to be slightly more spin-friendly than in India.
Hence you'd expect Sri Lankan batsmen to be slightly better players of spin than Indian ones.
The simple thing is, Warne didn't go to pieces in Sri Lanka (though he did the previous series, in West Indies) and he did in India, twice.
Another simple thing is, Warne has the ball in his hand and he dictates what happens next. If he bowls a fantastic ball (and no-one doubts he can) it doesn't matter how good Tendulkar is - he still won't be able to play it.
Warne, in some of the most spin-friendly conditions in The World, should be a better bowler. Instead he has thus far been worse.

 

[marc71178]

Hence you'd expect Sri Lankan batsmen to be slightly better players of spin than Indian ones.

But the Indian batsmen are simply better players full stop though!

 

[Tom Halsey]

They both have good top orders, but long talis IMO.

 

[Neil Pickup]

The long Sri Lankan tail that England frequently failed to bowl out? :P

When they need 3 or 4 seamers, then it's the case, but hardly at home.

 

[Tom Halsey]

The long Sri Lankan tail that England frequently failed to bowl out? :P

With our brilliant attack of Johnson, Giles, Batty, Hoggard, Flintoff, etc.? :P

 

[Neil Pickup]

It's nonetheless one of the stronger ones in World Cricket.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

It's nonetheless one of the stronger ones in World Cricket.

Then I fear for world cricket :P