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Thread: IPL Spot Fixing Scandal

  1. #301
    International Coach G.I.Joe's Avatar
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    Kundra is a 11% owner of RR. We don't know if Meiyappan holds any stake in CSK. There's a huge difference there if Meiyappan turns out to be merely a glory hunter.

    The amazing thing about all of this is that Shukla has managed a quiet exit while Srinivasan gets all the brickbats.
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  2. #302
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G.I.Joe View Post
    Kundra is a 11% owner of RR. We don't know if Meiyappan holds any stake in CSK. There's a huge difference there if Meiyappan turns out to be merely a glory hunter.

    The amazing thing about all of this is that Shukla has managed a quiet exit while Srinivasan gets all the brickbats.

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  3. #303
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G.I.Joe View Post
    Kundra is a 11% owner of RR. We don't know if Meiyappan holds any stake in CSK. There's a huge difference there if Meiyappan turns out to be merely a glory hunter.

    The amazing thing about all of this is that Shukla has managed a quiet exit while Srinivasan gets all the brickbats.
    There's plenty of proof though of Meiyappan having been the team principal for CSK. He was even doing the bidding at Auctions and there is even cards issued in his name. He's not merely a glory hunter.

    And even if he wasn't running it, he was in a priveledged position at CSK and not other teams due to it being owned by certain someone. Can you dispute that ? Or by that logic if Dawood Ibrahim was bidding for them, it won't be the owner's fault as long as he doesn't own a stake.

    As for Shukla he has gotten away, and not Srinivasan because Srinivasan is the head of India Cements which owns CSK and Meiyappan his son in law who it seems was running CSK for him apparently. Shukla as far as i am aware isn't involved directly anywhere.
    Last edited by Cevno; 06-06-2013 at 12:31 PM.

  4. #304
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Besides, Shukla has resigned anyway. Srinivasan is the one clinging on desperately.


  5. #305
    International Coach G.I.Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
    There's plenty of proof though of Meiyappan having been the team principal for CSK. He was even doing the bidding at Auctions and there is even cards issued in his name. He's not merely a glory hunter.

    And even if he wasn't running it, he was in a priveledged position at CSK and not other teams due to it being owned by certain someone. Can you dispute that ?
    Shilpa Shetty probably doesn't own a cent's worth of stake in RR, but she was present for all their auctions just because she happens to be Kundra's wife. Nothing is as straightforward as it seems to be. It would be preferable to reserve judgement until the facts are brought to light.

    Genuine question: What's a 'team principal' anyway? I've never heard of the term until recently. Does it involve ownership or just management or both?

    As for Shukla he has gotten away, and not Srinivasan because Srinivasan is the head of India Cements which owns CSK and Meiyappan his son in law who it seems was running CSK for him. Shukla as far as i am aware isn't involved directly anywhere.
    Shukla was the IPL commissioner. The man running the league should be much more culpable than the man heading the body that oversees the sport. Shukla getting off scot-free is what stinks the most in all this mess.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
    Besides, Shukla has resigned anyway. Srinivasan is the one clinging on desperately.
    Irrelevant. You need proof of direct involvement before you ask a person to quit. More importantly, quitting a post does not absolve one of the blame for the wrong-doings during his tenure. Has Shukla, the IPL commissioner, been made answerable for his direct failure to ensure a clean league? No, let's all follow Pawar's lead and go on a witch hunt against Srinivasan instead.

  6. #306
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G.I.Joe View Post
    Shilpa Shetty probably doesn't own a cent's worth of stake in RR, but she was present for all their auctions just because she happens to be Kundra's wife. Nothing is as straightforward as it seems to be. It would be preferable to reserve judgement until the facts are brought to light.

    Genuine question: What's a 'team principal' anyway? I've never heard of the term until recently. Does it involve ownership or just management or both?
    By that logic if a team allows Dawood Ebrahim to come and bid for them, and also open access to players while presenting him as team owner, they shouldn't be punished as long as he directly doesn't own a stake in that team ? Shilpa shetty, i think is amongst the owner's of RR too but even if she wasn't and had similar priviledges from the ownership while involved in some dodgy stuff, they should be held liable.

    Meiyappan's twitter page and the card issued to him referred to him as team principal, while the secretary sent him email's as team owner for workshops and consultations as we've seen in reports. What that role entailed exactly is irrelevant and largely circumventing the issue with pedantry.

    Also, RR and CSK are different in a way as India cements is a Public limited company while RR was private. So the ownership patterns can't be the same anyway.

    Shukla was the IPL commissioner. The man running the league should be much more culpable than the man heading the body that oversees the sport. Shukla getting off scot-free is what stinks the most in all this mess.
    You are getting it all wrong here.

    Srinivasan isn't being blamed for being the BCCI President during this mess and being asked to resign for that only.

    He is being blamed for first Owning the franchisee in conflict of interest. Srinivasan is the head of India Cements which owns CSK and Meiyappan his son in law who it seems was running CSK for him apparently. That's what he is blamed for and being asked to resign for.

    His responsibility as BCCI president and faliure to clean up the mess in that role is besides that.

    Irrelevant. You need proof of direct involvement before you ask a person to quit. More importantly, quitting a post does not absolve one of the blame for the wrong-doings during his tenure. Has Shukla, the IPL commissioner, been made answerable for his direct failure to ensure a clean league? No, let's all follow Pawar's lead and go on a witch hunt against Srinivasan instead.
    The witch hunt is about Srinivasan not resigning despite having moral issues. Shukla has resigned already. I am no fan of his but what else do you want him to do?

    I don't think anybody has said Srinivasan should be arrested either.
    Last edited by Cevno; 06-06-2013 at 01:32 PM.

  7. #307
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    The witch hunt is about Srinivasan not resigning despite having moral propriety issues and also being directly and indirectly involved in this mess. Shukla has resigned already despite not being directly involved. I am no fan of his but what else do you want him to do?

  8. #308
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
    The witch hunt is about Srinivasan not resigning despite having moral propriety issues and also being directly and indirectly involved in this mess. Shukla has resigned already despite not being directly involved. I am no fan of his but what else do you want him to do?

    The question is, why is his involvement/knowledge of all these issues not being probed? Did he quit on moral grounds and did he just take his best route to escape?

  9. #309
    Hall of Fame Member honestbharani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
    What a train wreck of a post. You want to desperately defend Srinivasan because he happens to be from where you are, but can't find any reasoning for it and hence try and make up all kinds of weird arguments and bring up irrelevant things.

    1.) Wtf does Sachin have to do with anything being debated here ? Irrelevant as per usual.

    2) And Mumbai Police arrested Bookies first. Who then spilled Vindoo's name. Who then in turn spilled Meiyappan's name. Get your facts right.

    3.) Ideally, i would like the franchisees stay where they are and the ownership shifted. But as per BCCI rules if RR has to be scrapped, then CSK has to go too. Simple as that. Infact, the case against CSK is far stronger.

    4.) Other teams are to be presumed innocent unless found guilty and scrapping IPL is throwing the baby out with the bath water. Might as well stop International cricket too because of Srinivasan?

    5.) Yeah, Modi was a better adminstrator than Srinivasan in terms of efficiency and doing things. No doubt about that. Whether one was cleaner than the other is open for debate though. A bit like Lalu Prasad Yadav vs Chidambaram, if you like.


    1) You made it sound as though I defend people out of favoritism. Just pointing out that you shouldn't be throwing stones from that glass house of yours.. Unable to understand simple points, as per usual..

    2) I stand corrected. My bad... I had missed the time they got the leads from the 6 bookies.. But here is something interesting for you to chew upon meanwhile..

    Court raps Mumbai police for weak case against Meiyappan and Vindoo - Hindustan Times


    3) No, its not. Read the paragraph above. As pointed out already, Meiyappan was never a direct shareholder like Kundra..


    4) Nah, if you are stopping international cricket, it can only be becasue of Pawar and Dalmiya.. Remember the match fixing days?

    5) Not really.. I am yet to see what was so efficient about the way Modi ran things. If you look at the articles circa 2010 when he was booted out, everything was pointed at the same fact that he ran things as he saw fit. There has surely been more names and more faces under NS than it ever was under Modi.. And remember his connections to the RR ownership, or is that conveniently forgotten too?

  10. #310
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani View Post
    The question is, why is his involvement/knowledge of all these issues not being probed? Did he quit on moral grounds and did he just take his best route to escape?
    His involvement in what ? And probed by whom ?

    You're just clutching at straws now.

  11. #311
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani View Post
    1) You made it sound as though I defend people out of favoritism. Just pointing out that you shouldn't be throwing stones from that glass house of yours.. Unable to understand simple points, as per usual..

    2) I stand corrected. My bad... I had missed the time they got the leads from the 6 bookies.. But here is something interesting for you to chew upon meanwhile..

    Court raps Mumbai police for weak case against Meiyappan and Vindoo - Hindustan Times


    3) No, its not. Read the paragraph above. As pointed out already, Meiyappan was never a direct shareholder like Kundra..


    4) Nah, if you are stopping international cricket, it can only be becasue of Pawar and Dalmiya.. Remember the match fixing days?

    5) Not really.. I am yet to see what was so efficient about the way Modi ran things. If you look at the articles circa 2010 when he was booted out, everything was pointed at the same fact that he ran things as he saw fit. There has surely been more names and more faces under NS than it ever was under Modi.. And remember his connections to the RR ownership, or is that conveniently forgotten too?
    Way to keep missing the point and keep bringing in irrelevant tangents. Not sure what you're over the top love for Lara and hate for Sachin has to do with anything here and re the last point i already said that who is cleaner than the other is debateable and gave reasons for Modi's efficiency earlier. Also, in detail explained 3 and 4. But keep ignoring facts and logic to carry on you're agenda..

    Anyways, Done with this debate with you now as it's frankly getting irritating. I am not sure what exactly you are trying to argue anyway and the way you are doing it is all over the place.
    Last edited by Cevno; 06-06-2013 at 03:52 PM.

  12. #312
    International Coach G.I.Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
    By that logic if a team allows Dawood Ebrahim to come and bid for them, and also open access to players while presenting him as team owner, they shouldn't be punished as long as he directly doesn't own a stake in that team ? Shilpa shetty, i think is amongst the owner's of RR too but even if she wasn't and had similar priviledges from the ownership while involved in some dodgy stuff, they should be held liable.
    You're doing your thing again where you insert incomparable analogies. There is a lot of difference between allowing a person with a proven track record like Dawood to bid for a team and allowing an unproven entity like Meiyappan to do the same.

    Meiyappan's twitter page and the card issued to him referred to him as team principal, while the secretary sent him email's as team owner for workshops and consultations as we've seen in reports. What that role entailed exactly is irrelevant and largely circumventing the issue with pedantry.
    No, it isn't. It is extremely relevant to know what the post entails. The rules of the IPL clearly mandate the termination of a franchise when an owner engages in betting. If a 'team principal' is not an owner, one doesn't have a case for the termination of CSK. If it's proven that Meiyappan was an owner, CSK is finished. If Meiyappan was not an owner, but it's proven that his activities were known to the owners and they failed to act on it, they'd be guilty of being accesories and CSK is finished. If Meiyappan isn't an owner and it turns out that 'team principal' is merely an employee of the franchise, albeit a high ranking one, CSK cannot be held guilty of any wrong doing. You don't terminate a company because an employee happened to be corrupt.


    You are getting it all wrong here.

    Srinivasan isn't being blamed for being the BCCI President during this mess and being asked to resign for that only.

    He is being blamed for first Owning the franchisee in conflict of interest. Srinivasan is the head of India Cements which owns CSK and Meiyappan his son in law who it seems was running CSK for him apparently. That's what he is blamed for and being asked to resign for.

    His responsibility as BCCI president and faliure to clean up the mess in that role is besides that.
    Congratulations to the concerned people of the country for taking a mere five years to come to this realization. Srinivasan's conflict of interest seems to have been a well kept secret, and it has required a scandal involving a person not named Srinivasan, in the sixth year of operations, for the people to demand Srinivasan's resignation.



    The witch hunt is about Srinivasan not resigning despite having moral issues. Shukla has resigned already. I am no fan of his but what else do you want him to do?

    I don't think anybody has said Srinivasan should be arrested either.
    Why is there no internal investigation into the role played by Shukla in the affair? Was he aware of these happenings and chose to overlook them, or was he incompetent? Would you not want to investigate the role of the IPL commissioner to (a) fix culpability, and (b) see what lessons could be learnt to prevent any similar future occurrences? Why do people treat a resignation as the end of the matter? It's the lazy way out.

    Then there's also the treasurer, the esteemed Mr. Shirke, who's made a grand show of moral outrage by resigning. One would assume that the treasurer would possess knowledge of the holding patterns of the various franchises. Why was he silent all this while if there was a conflict of interest with Srinivasan, and why hasn't he cleared the air about the exact nature of Meiyappan's role in CSK? Nah, it's far more convenient to grandstand and resign and hide from the public glare, isn't it? Cowards, the whole lot of them.

    And what exactly are these moral issues that Srinivasan is supposed to have? I sure as hell would be pissed off if I were innocent of any wrong doing and yet people demanded that I resign from my post for the sins of my son in law. You've got to prove that Srinivasan was in the know. Is there even the tiniest shred of evidence to suggest that this was so? If you think the conflict of interest he has with his ownership of CSK is a moral issue, were you guys in hibernation for all these years? Why demand his resignation now? Clearly you people find the Meiyappan angle relevant, you're using it as a trigger, and you're confusing yourselves by linking the two issues together. You guys have a muddled thought process atm. You're all operating out of a blind sense of moral outrage. You just want someone to pay, and Srinivasan has always looked a delicious target. Let the law run it's course. If it finds a link between Meiyappan's betting and Srinivasan, kick him out. If it doesn't, hound the strangely quiet Sharad Pawar and his buddies for tweaking the rules and allowing him to own a franchise.

  13. #313
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G.I.Joe View Post
    You're doing your thing again where you insert incomparable analogies. There is a lot of difference between allowing a person with a proven track record like Dawood to bid for a team and allowing an unproven entity like Meiyappan to do the same.


    No, it isn't. It is extremely relevant to know what the post entails. The rules of the IPL clearly mandate the termination of a franchise when an owner engages in betting. If a 'team principal' is not an owner, one doesn't have a case for the termination of CSK. If it's proven that Meiyappan was an owner, CSK is finished. If Meiyappan was not an owner, but it's proven that his activities were known to the owners and they failed to act on it, they'd be guilty of being accesories and CSK is finished. If Meiyappan isn't an owner and it turns out that 'team principal' is merely an employee of the franchise, albeit a high ranking one, CSK cannot be held guilty of any wrong doing. You don't terminate a company because an employee happened to be corrupt.
    The analogies are not fully incomparable or you can use any unknown/undercover criminal instead of Dawood. And the IPL rules state that anyonepart of the management/ownership/holding company IIRC. There's a difference there.

    Or if you are being argumentative then Raj Kundra will deny having bet on matches too and the rest will claim he has only 11 percent stage. Why should the majority shareholders be punished for what allegedly a friend of 11 percent stake holder in Kundra (Goenka) was doing.

    Atleast, there's a registered case in this. There they don't even have evidence enough to do that and get custody. You can make a argument for anything like this and set up "probe panels" conveniently.

    Congratulations to the concerned people of the country for taking a mere five years to come to this realization. Srinivasan's conflict of interest seems to have been a well kept secret, and it has required a scandal involving a person not named Srinivasan, in the sixth year of operations, for the people to demand Srinivasan's resignation.

    And what exactly are these moral issues that Srinivasan is supposed to have? I sure as hell would be pissed off if I were innocent of any wrong doing and yet people demanded that I resign from my post for the sins of my son in law. You've got to prove that Srinivasan was in the know. Is there even the tiniest shred of evidence to suggest that this was so? If you think the conflict of interest he has with his ownership of CSK is a moral issue, were you guys in hibernation for all these years? Why demand his resignation now? Clearly you people find the Meiyappan angle relevant, you're using it as a trigger, and you're confusing yourselves by linking the two issues together. You guys have a muddled thought process atm. You're all operating out of a blind sense of moral outrage. You just want someone to pay, and Srinivasan has always looked a delicious target. Let the law run it's course. If it finds a link between Meiyappan's betting and Srinivasan, kick him out. If it doesn't, hound the strangely quiet Sharad Pawar and his buddies for tweaking the rules and allowing him to own a franchise.
    There's been outrage over his conflict of interest for a long while now, but BCCI being BCCI there's not much you can do except outrage. Now that the same conflict of interest has gotten things to a head, the outrage has increased.

    Don't get what is the argument here anyway ? He had conflict of interest owning a team. Now the management of that team which he was owning and allegedly allowing his son in law priviledges too, has gotten into trouble.

    Just because there was less outrage before, does by no means mean that he should be let off the hook now. And yes, Pawar is to be blamed for allowing this too but there are 2 parts of this charge -

    1) Having a conflict of interest and owning a team while keeping all top BCCI posts.

    2) Being a owner of a CSK, and allegedly allowing son in law to run his team and have priviledged access as team principal which was used for illegal activities.

    Pawar, if anything was involved in 1 but not in 2. Yes, obviously he needs to be blamed too but how does it exonerate the main person i.e Srini ?

    Why is there no internal investigation into the role played by Shukla in the affair? Was he aware of these happenings and chose to overlook them, or was he incompetent? Would you not want to investigate the role of the IPL commissioner to (a) fix culpability, and (b) see what lessons could be learnt to prevent any similar future occurrences? Why do people treat a resignation as the end of the matter? It's the lazy way out.
    So according to you the commissioner should be aware of someone fixing manages or betting in a individual capacity, but the direct team owner can be let off ? Ok.

    Yes, lessons need to be learned for future occurences and Shukla to be blamed too but he has resigned already, while the demand so far has been for Srinivasan't resignation too as the first step. It's not the end of the matter but until he resigns the probe panel can't be expected to function freely and BCCI to act fairly on his team.

    I ask again what action you want to take against Shukla ? And Srinivasan by the same logic and for a more severe involvement ? Specify please instead of generalities.

    And Resignation is not the end of the matter, but it is a start which is why Srinivasan is clinging on desperately with Fevicol though now he has to share his seat.


    Then there's also the treasurer, the esteemed Mr. Shirke, who's made a grand show of moral outrage by resigning. One would assume that the treasurer would possess knowledge of the holding patterns of the various franchises. Why was he silent all this while if there was a conflict of interest with Srinivasan, and why hasn't he cleared the air about the exact nature of Meiyappan's role in CSK? Nah, it's far more convenient to grandstand and resign and hide from the public glare, isn't it? Cowards, the whole lot of them.
    Huh ? It's not the treasurer's job to clear the air about anyone's role in CSK out of the blue. He was clearly considered in the list of owners at first.

    And having a conflict of interest was immoral but the whole world was aware of it. You are really stretching the argument here.

    Besides even if we take your argument which is blame x, y. z etc... too. It in no way exonerates Srinivasan. So not sure how that is a defence for him ? And if it is, then it's a very weak one.




    Edit - Also the important question, will CSK register a case against Meiyappan as it will be very hard to press any charges against him outside of Gambling without CSK who is the affected party here registering a case ?

    Rajasthan Royals has done so against his players. Why the reluctance from CSK to do so against Meiyappan ? Slap harsh charges of fraud and cheating against him if he was contracted and also charges of trespassing and getting illegal access to info as per your argument if he wasn't. What's stopping them ? Please do tell.
    Last edited by Cevno; 06-06-2013 at 11:10 PM.

  14. #314
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Besides, BCCI President is a honorary post. It's not like anyone's life should be defending on it.

    Resignation is not the be all and end all either, but it's the logical first step to ensure the following actions happen without someone directly involved and liable to lose something (CSK and his SIL) at the helm. And to ensure they happen freely, without the fear of BCCI president.

    Why the reluctance to step down, from a honorary post if you have nothing to gain, lose or hide from that ? Let the logical sequence of events follow.

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    International Coach G.I.Joe's Avatar
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    Need to pop outside and run some errands. Just logged in to say that I was wrong about the IPL rule about termination in case an owner engages in betting etc. There apparently is no such rule.

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