England Academy - NZ A - Australia A - India A - And everyone else's second tiers...

[Craig]

I was just wondering has Chris Rogers done enough perhaps to get selected for Australia after beingn amed in the Australia 'A' team?

 

[marc71178]

His record looks good, and it would annoy certain forum members if he got in ahead of "god", so I say yes!

 

[Richard]

It's late.. :duh: Oops (again)

Fair enough.

 

[Richard]

* finds it amusing that after complaining about overseas players in County Cricket, the same person then basically writes off all the current "probables" *

Not many of them are probables if you ask me. Just more mistaken selections.

 

[marc71178]

Not many of them are probables if you ask me.

So why were they selected for the academy then?

:rolleyes:

 

[Tom Halsey]

Sorry. Just posted a load of drivel which I've just realised is completely pointless

 

[Neil Pickup]

Not many of them are probables if you ask me. Just more mistaken selections.

Name your academy and U19 squads then..

 

[Tom Halsey]

Neil, have you heard of Nick Prowting? He is head boy at my school and has played a few U-19 matches

 

[Neil Pickup]

Neil, have you heard of Nick Prowting? He is head boy at my school and has played a few U-19 matches

Nope, never heard of him. Like the initials, though

 

[Salamuddin]

India A

Gautam Gambhir
SS Das (capt)
H Badani (vc)
Y Singh
R Solanki
Robin Uthappa

All Rounders
Rohan Gavaskar
Ramesh Powar

Wicketkeepers
Thilak Naidu
Dinesh Karthik

Pacers
Munaf Patel
Amit Bhandari
Sidharth Trivedi
Aavishkar Salvi
Sreeshanth

Spinners
Amit Mishra (leg break)
Sarandeep Singh (off break)
Timil Patel (leg break)

 

[thierry henry]

I don't think the Academy team will be playing again this season...quite a few of those players though may feature in NZ 'A'.

The NZ 'A' series v Sri Lanka is in Febuary before South Africa are here so it does have quite a bit of importance for those who think they have a chance of making the step up to the NZ team.

At this stage, they'd probably pick a squad of 13 or 14..

maybe these names would feature:

McIntosh
Jones
Ryder
Fulton
Nicol
H.Marshall
Canning
Bevan Griggs
Bruce Martin
Mason
Sherlock
And possibly Shane Bond if he's trying to work his way back from injury.

Why would an NZ A side need so many new names?? We've used so many different players at international level in recent years, why throw them all on the scrapheap??

If the New Zealand test team was to look like this, for instance

Vincent
Richardson
McIntosh/Fleming
McMillan
Styris
Cairns
Oram
Hart
Vettori
Tuffey
Butler

Then New Zealand A could look something like this

Jones
Bell
Sinclair
Marshall (J or H??)
McCullum
Mills
Canning
Adams
Wiseman
Walmsley
Mason

Many of those players have considerable international experience. Sure, some of those guys are not young and are perennial second-stringers- the likes of Bell, Jones, Sinclair, Wiseman, Walmsley- but still, surely that team is stronger than the bunch of youngsters you've got written down.

And even after you've picked 22, you still have to consider that Bond and Astle are injured, and you still have the likes of 2000/01s "next big thing" James Franklin hanging around, plus Craig Cumming, or Chris Martin, who only 30 months ago was New Zealand's premier test bowler before rather spectacularly dropping off the scene. Sheesh, we've even got Jeff Wilson, although that's stretching it a bit, and then the real up and coming talents like Ryder and Fulton (must say Fulton excites me, scoring a 300 is some achievement and he's backed it up with a century already this season.)

 

[Craig]

Yeah Ryder so far has made a top score of 49this season, but the season is young.

 

[anzac]

'A' Team squad selections IMO represent different things at different times. Ideally the squad should represent your 2nd tier as a stepping stone to full International representation, but I do not think it should be limited to either just that or to your best domestic players.

At various times it can be a form of rehabilitation for senior players coming back from injury or loss of form; or an introduction for Acadamy / youngsters to life in a touring squad as well as the next level of competition (where these players may not necessarily represent your current 2nd tier).

Furthermore it can be used to judge the results of players participation at specific training camps - Mason at Chennai, the young spinners taken to SRL etc.

Other factors to be considered include which selection path best suits your current / immediate needs / requirements & where is your best opposition likely to come from as a test of the player.

So far as the former point goes do you need to select a senior player (2nd tier / rehab etc) on an away tour, or would it be better to blood another player who is on the fringe? EG Would a youngster / fringe player have more to gain from a tour of the sub continent to gain exposur to different conditions & to learn more skills (bat or bowling).

Regarding the latter point would a match / series v say the Bangladesh 'A' Team be of any benefit to a senior player, as opposed to playing in the local domestic competition? On the other hand such a selection can be used to keep senior squad members in match form for an upcoming series - eg Langer Captained Australia 'A' on an Away tour while the ODI squad was involved in a tourneyment.

Last but not least, the type of match to be played will influence the type of selections - 4 day v Limited Overs. Eg NZ ODI team is struggling in comparison to the Test squad, so an 'A' Team for a Limited Overs match / series could contain greater experimentation than a squad for the longer game.


8D

 

[anzac]

While TH's squad is strong on experience, I feel it is limited as to it's long term benefits to NZ Cricket. To me there is no point in selecting perenial 2nd stringers unless there are no other options available, or established senior players unless there is a specific benefit to be had.

Such players would include the likes of Sinclair, Wiseman, Walmsley and to a lesser extent Jones & Bell. Likewise the selections of McCullum, Mills & Adams would be wasted for a Limited Overs match / series as they are established ODI squad / players with over 2 dozen caps each. The only times I would be using the likes of these 8 players (other than rehab) would primarily to give the side some experience to balance an influx of Acadamy / fringe players, who would be the main focus of the development.

From what I can see NZ has a number of options across the board, although the bowling appears a little thin, particularly for anything other than fast/med:
Jones, Bell, Papps, McIntosh, J Marshall, Horsley, Cumming, Ingram = Openers;
H Marshall, Fulton, Ryder, N Parlane, Orchard, Nichol, Taylor, Broom = mid order;
Franklin, Adams, Canning, M Walker, Yovich, Sheed, Woodcock, Gillespie, B Walker = lower order;
Patel, Wilson, Mills, Mason, G & H Shaw, J McMillan, M Hart, B Martin, Butler = Tail.

35 players with a spread of age, experience & prospects, with less than a dozen aged in their mid 20s or older. Some with established F/C careers, others less than a dozen F/C matches to their credit.

Current fringe include - Jones, Cumming, Adams (Test), Canning, M Walker, Mills, Mason, Butler; Retreads include - Bell, H Marshall, Franklin, B Walker, Wilson, M Hart; with the rest being prospects of various age & experience.

While some of these players have less than glorious previous selections to their credit, I am a firm believer that once these players have been identified via the Acadamy / training camps / prior selection, that they should not be returned to the domestic competition & forgotten / left to fend for themselves. These players should continue to be nurtured thru their early careers including 'A' Team selections to better prepare them for full internationals, and to address any form difficulties they need to address such as Franklin, Sinclair or Bell.

Similarly I believe that promising youngsters should be brought into the fold sooner rather than later, so at the very least they know they are being watched / groomed to be given their opportunity in the future. Too often IMO good talent is lost for want of encouragement or recognition.

Likewise if they are not lost then they could change / neglect the part of their game that had the potential to be developed. Eg NZ has a wealth of med / fast seamers - how many have dropped their pace or have changed their actions from banging the ball in to going across the top, or have not taken advantage of natural swing action etc?

8D

 

[southern man]

While TH's squad is strong on experience, I feel it is limited as to it's long term benefits to NZ Cricket. To me there is no point in selecting perenial 2nd stringers unless there are no other options available, or established senior players unless there is a specific benefit to be had.

Such players would include the likes of Sinclair, Wiseman, Walmsley and to a lesser extent Jones & Bell. Likewise the selections of McCullum, Mills & Adams would be wasted for a Limited Overs match / series as they are established ODI squad / players with over 2 dozen caps each. The only times I would be using the likes of these 8 players (other than rehab) would primarily to give the side some experience to balance an influx of Acadamy / fringe players, who would be the main focus of the development.

From what I can see NZ has a number of options across the board, although the bowling appears a little thin, particularly for anything other than fast/med:
Jones, Bell, Papps, McIntosh, J Marshall, Horsley, Cumming, Ingram = Openers;
H Marshall, Fulton, Ryder, N Parlane, Orchard, Nichol, Taylor, Broom = mid order;
Franklin, Adams, Canning, M Walker, Yovich, Sheed, Woodcock, Gillespie, B Walker = lower order;
Patel, Wilson, Mills, Mason, G & H Shaw, J McMillan, M Hart, B Martin, Butler = Tail.

35 players with a spread of age, experience & prospects, with less than a dozen aged in their mid 20s or older. Some with established F/C careers, others less than a dozen F/C matches to their credit.

Current fringe include - Jones, Cumming, Adams (Test), Canning, M Walker, Mills, Mason, Butler; Retreads include - Bell, H Marshall, Franklin, B Walker, Wilson, M Hart; with the rest being prospects of various age & experience.

While some of these players have less than glorious previous selections to their credit, I am a firm believer that once these players have been identified via the Acadamy / training camps / prior selection, that they should not be returned to the domestic competition & forgotten / left to fend for themselves. These players should continue to be nurtured thru their early careers including 'A' Team selections to better prepare them for full internationals, and to address any form difficulties they need to address such as Franklin, Sinclair or Bell.

Similarly I believe that promising youngsters should be brought into the fold sooner rather than later, so at the very least they know they are being watched / groomed to be given their opportunity in the future. Too often IMO good talent is lost for want of encouragement or recognition.

Likewise if they are not lost then they could change / neglect the part of their game that had the potential to be developed. Eg NZ has a wealth of med / fast seamers - how many have dropped their pace or have changed their actions from banging the ball in to going across the top, or have not taken advantage of natural swing action etc?

8D

Why are you calling wilson a tail ender?

 

[anzac]

Why are you calling wilson a tail ender?

he could make it to the lower order ' allrounder' category, but on current form he would be picked as a bowler who can hold his bat, as opposed to an 'allrounder' just yet;

for me the Tail starts around no8 (6 batsmen, 1 'keeper & 4 bowlers, or should I say 5 batsmen, 1 allrounder, 1 'keeper & 4 bowlers), which is where he batted recently from memory & I'm pretty sure that's where he was selected in his ODIs;

players such as Adams, Canning, Walker, Franklin, Yovich have better credentials so far as 'allrounder' status, or they regularly bat higher in the order than no8.

 

[Tim]

Peter Ingram an NZ 'A' candidate? no way!
Jamie How is scoring more runs than Ingram as an opener for the same team C.D

 

[Tim]

Peter Fulton is a little too inconsistent...but he's really only in his 2nd solid season of FC cricket.

He scored that century but then got 2 failures...although he's currently 48* against Wellington heading into Day 4.

I've gone on & on about how good a player Peter Fulton is before..and it looks like he's starting to re-pay me.
Some of his shots remind me of Mark Waugh, it'll be interesting to see though how he long he has to wait to get into the NZ team..you can't just keep ignoring a player who scored 300* against Auckland - as long as he's backing that up with more good scores.

 

[southern man]

he could make it to the lower order ' allrounder' category, but on current form he would be picked as a bowler who can hold his bat, as opposed to an 'allrounder' just yet;

for me the Tail starts around no8 (6 batsmen, 1 'keeper & 4 bowlers, or should I say 5 batsmen, 1 allrounder, 1 'keeper & 4 bowlers), which is where he batted recently from memory & I'm pretty sure that's where he was selected in his ODIs;

players such as Adams, Canning, Walker, Franklin, Yovich have better credentials so far as 'allrounder' status, or they regularly bat higher in the order than no8.

When was the last time Adams batted higher than 8 other than to go out and slog, Wilson is a far superior batsman to Adams.
Wilson can actually play proper strokes.
Canning is a better batsman but not a better bowler.
Yovich far far to incostant.
Franklin what happened to him the next big thing aye? well done hadlee.

 

[Richard]

How can you possibly blame Hadlee for that? How?
Franklin bowled total garbage and could not possibly compain about his non-selection.