The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Logan]

Garner, Donald, and Davidson (IMO) are just outside the top tier (putting Barnes there to complement the obvious 6) along with Wasim. All three are underrated.

Who is the obvious six?

Marshall
Hadlee
Steyn
McGrath
Ambrose

Who is the other one?

 

[Slifer]

Who is the obvious six?

Marshall
Hadlee
Steyn
McGrath
Ambrose

Who is the other one?

Better be imran...lol. Then again, could be Trueman

 

[ataraxia]

Imran.

 

[Logan]

The match winning quality is the quality of legends. botham had it. ambrose had it. hadlee had it. marshall had it. .

Ambrose took 22 5WPI in 179 innings.

Donald took 20 5WPI in 120 innings.

Ambrose had a better average. Donald had a better SR.

So how was Donald a lesser match winner?

 

[Logan]

Devil’s Advocate here

Is Glen McGrath the greatest or even Top 3 bowler?

1. He averages 29 in SriLanka and 31 in Pakistan.

2. He has taken 1 5WPI in 17 Tests in Asia.

3. He never played against the best team of his era(Aus)

4. Against the second best team of his era(SA), he averages 27 and has a SR of 71.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah he is.

 

[Logan]

Against Australia, Donald averaged 31 and had a SR of 61.

Against SouthAfrica, McGrath averaged 27 and had a SR of 71.

Against every other country, Donald had a sub-23 average and sub-50 Strike. Something even McGrath couldn’t do.


But the popular opinion is McGrath a Top 3 or Top 5 bowler. While Donald is Top 10 bowler at best.

 

[Chrish]

3. He never played against the best team of his era(Aus)

That team was ATG because of Mcg. He was the central pillar of that Aussie team. On the occasions when he was missing, the team all of a sudden looked very vulnerable despite their Pontings, Gilchrists, Haydens or Warnes still playing.

 

[Logan]

McGrath was ONE of the reasons. Not the only reason.

 

[jimmy101]

Is Glen McGrath the greatest or even Top 3 bowler?

He never played against the best team of his era(Aus)

About time someone called out McGrath on pulling out of all of those tours to Australia. Shameful really.

But in seriousness, he played against them all the time in domestic cricket. Doesn't that count for something?

 

[Logan]

I agree McGrath is one of the ATGs.

My question is simple. Why is someone like Donald who was just as good thought as inferior to McGrath? They are almost equals IMO.

 

[ataraxia]

Interesting: http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/43336-glenn-mcgrath-vs-allan-donald.html

 

[jimmy101]

I agree McGrath is one of the ATGs.

My question is simple. Why is someone like Donald who was just as good thought as inferior to McGrath? They are almost equals IMO.

Almost. But Donald was ultimately better.

 

[jimmy101]

So I was just having a squiz on statsderp.com & found out that Viv's average against the Windies in the 1980's was 0.00.

Man, I'm so glad we live in an age where we can use numbers to de-bunk these mythologies.

 

[ataraxia]

I know, right. Did you know that Bradman never scored a single run against Australia in Tests? I don't understand why people rate him this much. Chris Martin's ahead of him IMO.

 

[jimmy101]

I know, right. Did you know that Bradman never scored a single run against Australia in Tests? I don't understand why people rate him this much. Chris Martin's ahead of him IMO.

I've often said that Bradman isn't fit to walk across the same street as Chris Martin.

Bradman's ODI average is pitiful as well.

 

[Chrish]

PS what was the quality of Indian team during Benaud/ Davidson days? Did they bowl against any decent batsmen?

 

[jimmy101]

Hazare was probably the best of the bunch back then. Genuinely World Class batsman.

 

[Logan]

Donald is often penalised for his mediocre record (Avg:31 and SR:71) in any ATG discussion.

But McGrath’s mediocre record(Avg:27 and SR:71) against the best team he faced(SA) never comes to discussion.

That’s what I meant.

 

[Logan]

So I was just having a squiz on statsderp.com & found out that Viv's average against the Windies in the 1980's was 0.00.

Man, I'm so glad we live in an age where we can use numbers to de-bunk these mythologies.

I meant McGrath was lucky to have played for and not against the greatest team ever. Many modern day greats including Donald, Akram, Waqar, Pollock etc didn’t have a great record against the Aussies.