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Why 3 seamers?

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Arjun said:
Little guys like Agarkar can't make use of the conditions, because of their height. Besides, bowling 4 good balls, then 2 bad balls is NOT the way to use the conditions.
No, it's not, but Agarkar still extracted enough play-and-misses. I'm the first one to say play-and-misses don't count for anything unless you get the edge eventually, but Agarkar did - he got three wickets in a Test innings. Which, for him, is unusual.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Arjun said:
Sometimes, I think Ganguly's just plain stupid, when he repeats the same big mistakes so often.

Why 3 seamers? What sort of a seam attack is this? Why, when you have 2 quality spinners in your team? Against a batting side that is bred on seam bowling much better than what we are seeing now? In fact, Ganguly seems a better bowler than Agarkar at times, at least he uses the conditions well.

Look at Indian bowling attacks of the past that actually won matches for the team away from home. Who were the best bowlers? The spinners.

In Australia, the Indians have won just 3 matches. In 2 of them, Prasanna, Bedi and Chandrashekhar ran through the Australian teams, when they won those matches.

Even in the last away series they won, it was the spinners who had an important role to play. Even in the last few away Tests, the best bowlers have been spinners.

Look at the Test series in the West Indies that the Indians last played. The West Indian pitches favour the seamers. But who was your best bowler? Harbhajan Singh. He was the only bowler to average in the 20's and took a 5-wicket haul. He did far better than all the so-called fast bowlers put together.

In the Test series in England, the seamers disappointed, yet again. But it was likely to happen with Agarkar bowling. He bowls rubbish, so does the rest of the seam 'attack'. But when the Indians played both Kumble and Harbhajan, they won that match in Headingley. The pair were the best bowlers in that series for the Indians.

Even in New Zealand, on those seamer-friendly grasslands that are sometimes called cricket pitches, Harbhajan put up a better bowling performance than Nehra and Agarkar put together. Even on 'seamer-friendly' Mohali, Kumble and Harbhajan took 15 wickets between them to defeat the English in 2001.

You can have one good look at the bowling averages of the spinners, then the 'seamers', then decide who are the best bowlers at hand. The Indians always make this mistake of picking 5 'fast' bowlers for an away series and what happens? At least 1 or 2 don't even get a match! They are just net bowlers! At least if they played that extra spinner, he would get that odd match.

Whenever the Australians come to India or Sri Lanka, do they load the team with spinners? No, just Shane Warne and a back-up spinner, mostly for Test matches. The West Indians don't believe in picking a spinner just to have one in your team. They always play their best bowlers, irrespective of whether they are spinners or seamers. These teams play to their strengths. If the Indians played to their main strength, they would have won a few more matches abroad.

On present form, Kumble is a better bowler than Agarkar and Nehra put together. Why he was not picked is a mystery. Same for Karthik's exclusion. Australian pitches may suit seamers, but Australians thrive on seam bowling just as much. I think teams should be picked more on opposition strengths and weaknesses. Which cannot be said of the selectors.
Australian pitches do not normally suit seamers, this 'Gabba one is a refreshing change. They suit batsmen, wristspinners and seam-up bowlers who can bowl alternatively (ie Vaas, Donald, Ambrose, the W's, etc.).
It's all very well saying "select on the opponents' weaknesses" but Harbhajan hasn't exactly been a constant menace. Australian batsmen are only weak against spin when the ball's turning, which it doesn't tend to away from The SCG and sometimes Adelaide Oval.
How many Tests have India won outside the subcontinent? Ever? I read somewhere that they are a less frequent occurance htan national elections. Bedi, Chandra and Venkat might have helped win a few more than normal, but I bet it wasn't an extraordinary amount.
The reason the seamers "disappointed" in 2002, as I have tried to tell you several times, was because England is stereotyped as "seamer-friendly", and barely a blade of grass was seen in 2002. If it had been called "India" or "Australia", which it was more akin to in 2002, then the seamers wouldn't have been so disappointing, because it would have been realised that the seamers didn't have much help. In New Zealand later that year, Zaheer Khan at least was pretty impressive? Harbhajan managed 4 or 5 plucky wickets that series. And as Liam said, West Indian pitches do not favour seamers, even if Ganguly predicted they would. Even Srinath was disappointing in the end.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
How many Tests have India won outside the subcontinent? Ever? I read somewhere that they are a less frequent occurance htan national elections. Bedi, Chandra and Venkat might have helped win a few more than normal, but I bet it wasn't an extraordinary amount.
A lot of those Tests won by the Indians were won with 3 spinners. However, with this 3-seamer plan, their performances away from home have been quite bad. They have rarely won matches away from home, with 3 seamers, despite helpful seaming conditions. Besides, these seamers can't use the helpful conditions well. Srinath and Prasad were quite effective in these conditions, but place them on flat pitches, in ODI's, they're easy targets. I expect quality bowlers to bowl well in both forms of the game. The Australians have a quality bowling attack and they do bowl well in both.

That was not an extraordinary amount, but it was still something. What great thing has this oace-obsessed Indian team done?

Australian pitches do not normally suit seamers, this 'Gabba one is a refreshing change. They suit batsmen, wristspinners and seam-up bowlers who can bowl alternatively (ie Vaas, Donald, Ambrose, the W's, etc.).
It's all very well saying "select on the opponents' weaknesses" but Harbhajan hasn't exactly been a constant menace. Australian batsmen are only weak against spin when the ball's turning, which it doesn't tend to away from The SCG and sometimes Adelaide Oval.
Sure, they're not weak against spin, but they're great batsmen against pace bowling, especially Indian. If he sticks to a proper line and length, it's enough. Who was the best bowler for the Indian team away from home, in WI, England and NZ? It was a spinner, though Zaheer got wickets in NZ, only due to the so-called cricket pitches there.

In New Zealand later that year, Zaheer Khan at least was pretty impressive? Harbhajan managed 4 or 5 plucky wickets that series.
That series also made great bowlers out of some medium-pace giants. Look where they are now. Besides, Harbhajan had a good average, but was underused, when he bowled better than the combination of Nehra and Agarkar and especially Yohannan. Nehra struggles to take wickets, everywhere. Agarkar can only take 2-4 wickets in a match. No doubt the Australian pitches don't suit seamers, but we are the only ones who know this. Everyone else wants to pack the team with seamers. Harbhajan may not be a constant menace, but he's still better than some of the seamers in this Indian team.

The reason the seamers "disappointed" in 2002, as I have tried to tell you several times, was because England is stereotyped as "seamer-friendly", and barely a blade of grass was seen in 2002.
Sunil Gavaskar said that the pitches then were prepared "out of fear" to suit their own batsmen. But after that disastrous batting of the Indians in Lord's, they would be inspired to make greener pitches. That one in Headingley was in favour of the seamers, but the seam quartet bowled rubbish.

No, it's not, but Agarkar still extracted enough play-and-misses. I'm the first one to say play-and-misses don't count for anything unless you get the edge eventually, but Agarkar did - he got three wickets in a Test innings. Which, for him, is unusual.
Plays-and-misses count for nothing, if followed by long-hops, short-wide deliveries or juicy half-volleys. Agarkar is famous for this. Already he lacks the power. If he does not have the consistency, he's not helping himself at all.

agarkar, is more of a batsman than a bowler and he is more suited to the odis. in tests, if he doesnt do well, he should be dropped. his competition is with nehra for the 2nd slot.
So much for the new super-member of AAAS. He's a specialist one-day bowler, but not the kind you'd call a strike bowler. Someone like Ian Harvey. Nehra's out of the picture. He doens't seem capable of taking wickets.
 

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