*Official* New Zealand in Pakistan

[Neil Pickup]

Sure 65 off 4.5 overs is almost ridiculous but have a look at what NZ did in their innings, it was basically an identical situation..maybe Pakistan should get some death bowlers too.

63 off 4.3 - 63 off 27 balls - that's 14 an over!

It was a very poor performance - and it was Mohammad Sami!

The point is, there is no way they should have let that go from there - and why did Oram only bowl 8 overs?

 

[Tim]

Oram is apparently very sick at the moment, he lost 10kg over the last 2 weeks due to an illness he picked up in India. But it seems he might be over it more or less.

In the last 4 overs of NZ's innings, we scored 64 runs against a more established Pakistani attack.

I agree that NZ shouldn't have let it slip away but I think you're being too harsh as its a steep learning curve.

 

[Neil Pickup]

You also scored the runs with proper batsman, not wildly swining bowlers and bowling allrounders!

Probably am being harsh, but it was so clear that it was going to happen even from 15 overs out watching on Cricinfo (ask Liam) it was painful.

 

[Tim]

Razzaq can be just as explosive as Cairns at times, but NZ probably should not have let Sami hit 2 sixes.

But as I said I don't think Walmsley would be in this side & Cairns is no way near what he used to be as a bowler.
In the end it came down to in-experience which which was pretty much predicted before this tour started.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Is Hitchcock injured or didn't he want to go?

 

[Tim]

I think Hitchcock only just passed a fitness test before they left NZ, so he may well only play 1 or 2 games in the series.

I was interested to see that NZ didn't play Tuffey...if the batting holds up & we can bring in Tuffey & Hitchcock I think we could win a few matches.

I was impressed with the batting though...Hamish Marshall has extremely poor FC records, but you can't complain about this debuts in Test & ODI cricket. A 40* against South Africa in tests & now 55 on debut against Pakistan..he might well be playing Vincent out of the ODI team.

Sinclair batted with maturity & although the openers only managed 49..it was at a good clip coming off 9.5 overs.

 

[Tim]

I've defended Brendon McCullum over the last few months for some of his keeping errors, but its now starting to become a very big problem.

McCullum dropped a skied shot off Razzaq when Pakistan were on 258 & that could well have won the match for NZ.
He's got to fix this problem because arguably he's cost NZ 3 important matches..i'd say its starting to weigh on his mind alot now & so somebody needs to help him out quickly.

 

[marc71178]

Inexperience cannot be the only excuse here IMO.

Yes there's some inexperienced players in there at the highest level, but it's not as if they're all 20 or 21.

Should never have lost from there against a hit or out merchant and a tailender needing that many runs in such a short time.

 

[Tim]

Yeah well had England fielded 6 debutants im sure you would have been on defence Marc...it's all very well to say that from your position.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

But how many of those 6 debutants bowled in the last few overs? Last 10 overs:

Cairns 171 ODI's : 2-0-19-0
Vettori 118 ODI's : 1-0-10-0
Oram 47 ODI's : 2-0-16-1
Walmsley (debutant) : 2-0-22-1
Mason (debutant) : 1-0-18-0

Debutants bowled 3-0-40-1. The experienced bowled 7-0-45-1. That does sort of make the theory of inexperience seem valid.

 

[anzac]

damn - what a match it would have been to watch......hope the rest of the series is as good.....

great work by the Kiwis to be so competitive & actually have the game in a winning position & great work & congradulations to Pakistan for their chase to secure victory.......

An impressive batting performance (in comparison to recent top order efforts) shows the benefit of being able to build the platform for the lower order 'allrounders' to launch from. The batsmen should take great heart that the 'stars' of this Pakistani bowling lineup fared little better than their Kiwi counterparts.

The bowling in the last 10 overs remains a problem area, but will be strengthened with the return of Tuffey & Hitchcock.

Both teams should be confident about this match - Pakistan for their controlled chase enabling Razzaq to launch his rescue & NZ can be well pleased with their efforts considering they had 6 debutants. I think it was their inexperience in playing together that caused as much trouble as their stepping up to this level of cricket - particularly in the field.

NZ will rue the fact that they had this match for the taking, but I think under the circumstances that they have more reason to be pleased with their efforts than the Pakistanis, who may have under estimated this team (like many of us).

I look forward to seeing how well this team performs towards the end of the tour, and if they continue to improve & take confidence they may still be able to push their hosts as they have in this opening game, although I still think it is asking to much to expect a win in this series unless Pakistan revert to type & self destruct.

 

[Tim]

Yeah 7 overs 45/1 isn't too bad...but 3 overs for 40/1? yes thats bad.
Looking at the bigger picture also, Cairns only bowls off about 7 or 8 paces now he's hardly threatning & Oram has been recovering from an illness...NZ needed to score at least 320 in that match to feel safe IMO.

The last 4 overs of Pakistan's innings is arguably when things got way out of hand...the 4 bowlers who bowled those last 4 overs were: (in order) Oram, Walmsley, Mason & Cairns.
Perhaps NZ shouldn't have bowled the 2 debutants in succession.
Cairns too is fairly in-experienced as a captain but he has been around enough and should know what to do.

Sure some of those players are 28 or 30 but you're telling me that they should be able to click at international straight away. Those 7 or 8 players picked for debut had about 3 days to prepare for this tour.

 

[marc71178]

Yeah well had England fielded 6 debutants im sure you would have been on defence Marc...it's all very well to say that from your position.

But the inexperience wasn't a problem when they were piling on the runs and restrciting Pakistan earlier in the innings.

Besides, as I have pointed out, there's a difference between inexperienced 20 year olds, and those that have been around the game a fair while.

 

[anzac]

so far as the bowling goes, unless the newbies step up to the mark in their earlier spells, it may be a case of having to keep some experience for the last 5 or so overs.

Mason was a little disappointing at the end & I expected more from him considering his recent squad selections & work at the Chennai clinic. IMO Cairns needs to be able to contribute with the ball if he wants to retain his spot when the full squad is available.

Unless Tuffey is injured I expect to see him start in the next match along with Canning & Harris. I don't think Hitchcock will be fit yet - didn't he have a thigh strain in the TVS Cup & that's why he didn't get a start?

So perhaps Canning in for Oram to allow him to further recover from illness, Tuffey in for Walmsley & Harris in for Jones, with McCullum to partner Cumming & Harris to bat at 7.

As much as I dislike the idea of taking out a batsman I think the selectors want to utilise Harris' experience, esp in the field. Jones goes simply because Sinclair & Marshall worked well at 3 & 4, and McCullum was originally picked as an opener in the VB series to provide fireworks. It didn't happen then but his batting has improved during the TVS Cup. Sinclair has also opened in the past so he is another alternative, but I do not think neither his nor Marshall's tempo suits the selectors strategy for opening, but I would not be surprised if both open b4 the end of the series.

I also think the selectors will want the other 'allrounders' in Canning & Walker to have a bat, particularly with Hitchcock yet to start, so we could see some changes in the order depending on the state of play. Similarly Canning also becomes a contender to partner Tuffey if neither Mason, Walmsley, Cairns or Oram can get it together.

With so many 'unknown' quantities in this squad, and the need to find options at the top of the order & bowling at the death, I do not think the selectors have any option other than to experiment in the first 3 matches at least.

I expect to see something like this:

Cumming
McCullum
Sinclair
Marshall
Cairns
Canning
Harris
Walker
Vettori
Tuffey
Mason

 

[Rich2001]

Yeah well had England fielded 6 debutants im sure you would have been on defence Marc...it's all very well to say that from your position.

Just check back in the Forum Tim, England fielded a silly number of debutants in the summer after the World Cup makeover in which only M.Trescothick, M.Vaughan and a bowler or two come through the makeover.... you can see what Marc said, probley all good as we won most of the matches :saint: - That wasn't ment as a scarsastic comment, but it was the truth and Marc is hardly going to knock a winning side... *Remembers A.McGrath was playing then* maybe he did just a little :saint:

 

[anzac]

But the inexperience wasn't a problem when they were piling on the runs and restrciting Pakistan earlier in the innings.

Besides, as I have pointed out, there's a difference between inexperienced 20 year olds, and those that have been around the game a fair while.

yeah but they are still basically a squad of strangers so far as playing together goes & that's a big difference to making your debut in an established team or line up.

Batting combinations are easier to work on because it's just 2 in the middle & the Pakistani innings was restricted by the bowling of the 'established' players in Oram & Vettori in the middle overs.
It's the combinations (both bowling & in the field), & 'leaders' that will take some playing time together.

At this point they are probably likely to conceed an additional 30 plus runs in the field compared to the 'normal' lineup, and this is why I feel they will want to get Harris in asap to sharpen them up in close & help them gel.

 

[Tim]

Here's why nobody saw tv coverage:

from bbc website:

"But no-one was able to witness the run feast on TV because of a rights dispute between the state-run Pakistan Television Corporation and the private GEO channel"

 

[godofcricket]

yeah but they are still basically a squad of strangers so far as playing together goes & that's a big difference to making your debut in an established team or line up.

Batting combinations are easier to work on because it's just 2 in the middle & the Pakistani innings was restricted by the bowling of the 'established' players in Oram & Vettori in the middle overs.
It's the combinations (both bowling & in the field), & 'leaders' that will take some playing time together.

At this point they are probably likely to conceed an additional 30 plus runs in the field compared to the 'normal' lineup, and this is why I feel they will want to get Harris in asap to sharpen them up in close & help them gel.

I certainly think Pakistan had the advantage of there middle and lower batting order experience. Now if u compare that fielding to Pakistan’s then u certainly wouldn’t be disappointed. But one thing that should be kept in mind is NZ main concern was in there batting line-up. And they actually made 291, which is a huge total...... Now when you’re comparing the bowling line-ups Pakistan hasn't got all the experience at all as NZ also had cairns, vettori and oram. This almost levels the experience in the bowling department.

When Pakistan was actually chasing that huge total, they had two disadvantages, first NZ were bowling under lights, secondly Pakistan are one of the worst chasers and chasing under lights is even more tough for them….so I thought they really played well to win the match.

 

[amits]

amazing stuff by pak. i wish i had seen that match especially the power hitting by razzaq and sami in the later overs.

pakistan has amazing death batsman. i always c pak hitting lots of runs in the death. on an average, they hit 80 runs or something in the last 10 overs(40-50) of their innings in a match, so i am not surprised at this victory.

y didnt ten sports telecast this amazing match. i missed the explosive batting by cairns and razzaq.

 

[Tim]

Didn't I just explain in my previous post why no-one saw the cricket?
let's hope they've sorted it out for tonights game.