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Pakistan v New Zealand ODI series

Salamuddin

International Debutant
The Kiwis have traditionally struggled big time with Pakistan's fast bowling attack.

If I'm correct, Pakistan have a very good record in New Zea;land as well -- hvaing won the majority of the tests they have played there.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
You're right James, during the mid 90's the NZ batsmen were sh*t scared of Wasim & Waqar..but then again, most teams were when they were at their peak.

In recent times, it has changed...last time Pakistan toured here, we drew the test series & won the ODI series.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
It seems Shane might be heading down the same road that ruined Dion Nash, Geoff Allot & Shayne O'Connor...I don't think he should follow Cairn's lead & try and play every 3rd tour NZ make, it just doesn't work.
 

Craig

World Traveller
Wll it gives the likes of Mason to step up now. He was on the fringes last summer so this is his big chance.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Mason has been 12th man for NZ, since about October last year..so by now he must be chomping at the bit to finally get a chance to bowl for NZ.

He's a very honest player, a gutsy competitor like Mark Richardson & will always give 110% no matter what the circumstances are so here's hoping we've found a bowler who's the equivilent of Mark Richardson the batsman.
 

Craig

World Traveller
I can assure you all Richard will be very happy when he finds out that Saleem Elhai has been recalled.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
The Pakistan selection process is an absolute disgrace...calling & dumping players after every series...bringing in youth players for 1 game & then dropping them again.

No wonder Javed Miandad is up in arms.
 

anzac

International Debutant
Mason has a golden opportunity to show his worth, having been both a regular back up for the ODI squad and having recently been at the Chennai bowling camp with Lillee prior to the Indian Tour.

Ordinarily I would say that he is fighting Mills for a spot in the 'regular' team, but Bond's injuries may cause the selectors to rethink their strategies. It is no secret that NZ Cricket & Fleming want to persue a pace option having seen Bond's impact both on the field and the renewed interest in the public. IMO the variable in the equation may be Butler.

I know his stats to date have not been earth shattering, but he bowled well v India in the 2nd Test, and IMO would have started v Pakistan if he had chosen to be available for this depleted squad. Plus he is still young and inexperienced at international level. IMO the selectors will be dead keen on having him bowl with Bond in the Home series, if not against Pakistan if Bond is still injured, then definately v RSA. At this stage the NZ selectors are in as much trouble re their bowling options in ODIs as they are re the batting top order. They may be willing to 'carry' Butler's average if he can show improvement & be an 'impact' player like Lee appears to be in ODIs for Australia. I think the RSA series is the big target esp re rankings, and they may still want to experiment v Pakistan with the view to providing the best possible options v RSA, esp as that Test series follows after the ODIs.

My concern re the 'fringe' bowlers for NZ is that they are all about military fast / med in pace & little variation. While NZ has forged a successful Test record & tactics with this sort of limited seam attack they have not been able to do so in ODIs. Even with Bond in the ODI team they are still lacking a viable 3rd seam option. IMO this has had as much to do with the proliferation of 'allrounders' to the expense of class seamers. A quick comparison shows Cairns, Oram, Harris, Adams & now the possibility of Canning & Walker, V the likes of Mills, Hitchcock, & now Mason etc.

Me thinks that the current slump in RSA cricketing fortunes has a lot to do with the 'sameness' of their seam attack, and the core of their Test & ODI attack is a lot classier than that of NZ.
 

anzac

International Debutant
My pick for the potential 'sleeper' re batting in this temporary NZ ODI squad is Marshall. Again his recent form has meant his inclusion is a surprise, but I believe that has been as much a result of his appearing to have been discarded by the selectors after his impressive Test debut in RSA in the illfated tour 3 seasons ago.

It must be very hard for a 20-21 yr old to have played that well on debut on Tour in a loosing team decimated by injury, to have anchored the batting and remained unbeaten, only to not only be dropped but also discarded. No wonder his domestic form took a dive! At the time of his selection on that tour I think his domestic performances were as good as any of the current crop of youngsters such as McIntosh, Nicol & Co.

Marshall's only around 24 yrs old, and could put himself back into contention to provide batting cover for both Tests & ODIs (a role formerly held solely by Sinclair), ahead of some of the more fancied players like McIntosh etc, or even the recent players such as Jones or Horne.

I see the scrap between Marshall, Jones & Sinclair as one of the potential 'battles' within this squad, not only for current selection but also for future squad consideration. It's one of two where the main protagonists will actually be in the same squad, the other involving Canning, Walker, Hitchcock & Harris. God knows that NZ needs to develope some batting depth at International level for both games.
 

anzac

International Debutant
While on the subject of Butler & Marshall.......

Just thinking about it I was wondering if they were some sort of failed experiment by NZ cricket to emulate the Australian program of introducing young players to International cricket.

The Aussies seem to introduce a newbie each season for a match or 2 during a series, and then leave them out for a while b4 re-introducing them again, and then repeating the dosage. By the time they have to step up for consideration for a regular spot a couple of years down the track (as a result of retirement or injury etc), the Aussies have a pool of players with some International experience to choose from - usually about half a dozen games or so.

Recent years have seen the likes of Maher, Love, Bracken, Lee & Bichel (both now regulars), Hogg, Hauritz, Watson, Williams & even Symonds & Lehman to a lesser extent. Now this year we have seen Katich & Clarke introduced to develop cover re Lehman's role in the sides, while Williams & Bracken have had recalls to fill the gaps created by injuries. They seem to do this more with younger players making their debuts rather than older players or those with more domestic competition.

The NZ experiment may have become derailed as a result of the injury crisis & problems regarding the ODI side, as both Butler & Marshall were initially identified with the longer game. The other problem for NZ cricket with trying to copy the Australian system is that the domestic competition is not as strong. To have the same long term benefits the NZ players would have to make up for the lack in the domestic competition with regular / constant inclusion in the likes of 'A' Team tours etc, which is not easy to achieve financially either for the players or NZ Cricket, as well as the requirement to be Away from Home so often with little reward or coverage.

As a consequence NZ Cricket seems to have gone away from introducing young developing batsmen (another problem with truncated tours), and recent selections have opted for older specialists in the precieved problem areas (Horne, Jones). The other thing the Aussies tend to do when introducing a new batsman is to play them down the order in a position where there is less pressure on them to make or break a game, rather than the position where they may have come to attention in domestic cricket.

As this is one of my pet peeves regarding the use & abuse of young & developing players, I hope that the recent selections of Butler & Marshall is an effort by NZ Cricket to address their past indescretions regarding the likes of these players. Furthermore I'd rather see an 'established' player be promoted in the order, rather than have some youngster thrown in driectly into the firing line - Rutherford, McCullum et all. I only hope that at some stage Franklin may get a similar opportunity again, especially in the longer game for which he was originally identified but not used.

IMO this is one area NZ Cricket needs to work hard at if they hope to maintain their current level in International cricket, or to improve upon it. It's commonly referred to as 'succession planning' & IMO is one of the reasons why Australian cricket is so strong even with a 3rd string bowling attack or such.
 

Salamuddin

International Debutant
Pakistan are without doubt a team of incredible cricketing talent.

Yet like India their administration and selection processes are a joke.

One can only imagine what heights Pakistan could reach if they had an efficient admin and equitable selection.
 

anzac

International Debutant
Agreed....

based upon pure talent that is regularly uneartherd, Pakistan, India, RSA & WI should all be doing a lot better than they are. My question regarding a change to the Indian & Pakistani selection etc is would it blunt their cricket in any way???
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
You wait mate, in the next 2 years NZ's batting is going to go to a whole new dimension with some of the players we've got coming through.

Forget Nevin, Vincent etc...when you've got guys like Peter Fulton scoring 300's & Rob Nicol averaging 45 after 2 seasons, you know the future is looking good, aswell as a large number of other players with good FC records.

IF NZ can win an OK percentage of ODI's & be ranked 3rd in tests with such a miss-match team then imagine what we can do with better players!.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Hamish Marshall may be one of those players who can rise dramatically once on the international stage, but I have a feeling he'll come back down to earth quickly.

His FC & ODI records are extremely poor & its no real wonder why he was never picked again after the South African tour.
He just didn't put his hand up again, and infact it was his brother James who did for awhile by scoring a double century & a few other good innings but just like Hamish he quickly fell away.

It's hard to see Hamish staying in the NZ team for long if McIntosh, Nicol & someone like Ryder have another bumper season for their respective regions.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
James Franklin suffered big time from the selectors after he had a disappointing VB Series in 2001 & on his return to NZ he had a back injury I think.

By the time he returned in 2002, he was already well overtaken by Adams, Mills, Butler etc.

I think his future is still good because he is a left-armer & if NZ are looking variety in the pace attack then he could well have an advantage over the others.
 

godofcricket

State 12th Man
jamesryfler said:
Pakistan are without doubt a team of incredible cricketing talent.

Yet like India their administration and selection processes are a joke.

One can only imagine what heights Pakistan could reach if they had an efficient admin and equitable selection.
I certainly agree with you....they have got immense talent and for me the most talented players in the world....there batting is so inconsistent because the whole domestic structure is very weak. If they had the opportunity to play in solid structures like the ones in England or Australia...they would have been a far superior team than they are at the moment with very much consistency like the Australians..
 

Craig

World Traveller
Well to say how annoyed I was with O'Connor retiring is an understatement. His valuableness (is that a word? If not I have just invented one :D ) would been crucial and probably have done well in India and Sri Lanka.

Anzac, have you considered applying to be a CW Staff Member? You are obviously a NZ supporter with a lot of opinions on the team and I really do enjoy your posts without having to disagree with it and you could write some very good feature articles on NZ cricket.

View this as a compliment and full of praise as I usually dont give it out, I have been very impressed.

:) 8D

Found this on Cricinfo:

http://www-aus.cricket.org/db/ARCHIVE/CRICKET_NEWS/2003/NOV/011290_WCI_25NOV2003.html

If you dont know Ehsan Mani is the president of the ICC.
 

PY

International Coach
Craig said:
His valuableness (is that a word? If not I have just invented one :D ) would been crucial and probably have done well in India and Sri Lanka.
It isn't a word but the replacement word 'value' wouldn't really make sense either. Therefore PY's recommendation is 'contribution'
:)
 

meatspx

U19 Cricketer
Franklin did alright in the VB series. He just lacks the pace to trouble batsman frequently, and he was used at the death where he was exposed.

Oram was very dissapointing in the Indian tour; but he's a better bowler than that. He usually bowls with enough precision and gets a good amount of pace to add variety to the NZ attack, but I'd rather have him bowling first change. NZ needs a bowler to accompany Tuffey, and I don't see Butler taking up that role (espiscally in the ODIs). Pace isn't enough to be troubling to batsman and it can work against you at the start of the innings, espiecally when you spray 1-2 balls every over on the legs of the batsman as Butler does.

With the new injury to Bond it looks ominous, but NZ can get through the summer without him to be competitive.
 

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