Players who had careers that started off gun...

[Shri]

So go on then, show me all these non-turning surfaces that Saqlain succeeded on.

Saqlain, exactly like Harbhajan, was a damn good fingerspinner whose Doosra made him even more dangerous than ever on a turning deck. But just like Harbhajan he was easily enough handled by good batsmen on a deck that didn't allow the ball to grip.

And as mentioned, Murali is a wristspinner and a freak of nature at that. There may well never be another like him.

Compare both of their ODI careers. Harbhajan is nowhere as good as Saqlain because he bowls mostly without flight, bowls a leg stump line and bowls pies at batsmen. He is neither economical nor wicket taking and is pretty much useless in the side at the moment. He is considered to be a good spinner mainly because of his reputation and not because of his achievements.

Imo, he has been living on his reputation and has been carried in the side for a while. When did he win the side a test match with his spell of bowling since Kumble retired? And he is supposed to be India's front line spinner. He should be playing domestic cricket to sort himself out and Ojha or some other spinner should be playing along with Mishra in the test side.

 

[Richard]

Compare both of their ODI careers. Harbhajan is nowhere as good as Saqlain because he bowls mostly without flight, bowls a leg stump line and bowls pies at batsmen. He is neither economical nor wicket taking and is pretty much useless in the side at the moment. He is considered to be a good spinner mainly because of his reputation and not because of his achievements.

Who said anything about ODIs? We were talking about Tests. In any case Saqlain too went off-the-boil in ODIs as his career wore-on, for the same reasons as Harbhajan has done of late - inability to maintain the high standards he set for himself.

Imo, he has been living on his reputation and has been carried in the side for a while. When did he win the side a test match with his spell of bowling since Kumble retired? And he is supposed to be India's front line spinner. He should be playing domestic cricket to sort himself out and Ojha or some other spinner should be playing along with Mishra in the test side.

I know next to nothing about Ojha so I'll gladly not comment on that but how many Tests exactly has Harbhajan played since Kumble retired? Unless my memory's playing tricks on me, not many. And certainly not many on turning decks.

 

[Sir Alex]

That's why Harbhajan had them in knots on the only turning deck produced in that series?

The fact that he couldn't make any impact on two of the flattest decks you'll see (which the First was throughout and the Second was for most of the game after being a rank green seamer in the opening couple of sessions) is precisely what I'm saying. On a turner he remains an excellent bowler, and he showed that in the Third Test of that series.

I think my judgement of him in test matches got misled by his mediocre ODI performances of late. Since the Australian tour of India last winter he has picked up 39 wickets in 8 tests @ 27 which is very good indeed. However I stick to my belief that Harbhajan should not figure in ODIs. I think Ojha is a better bet.

 

[Richard]

As I say I know next to nothing about Ojha so I'll gladly not comment on his relative capability compared to Harbhajan. However Harbhajan was at one point not merely a good but excellent ODI bowler. I cannot conceive he has simply lost what made him such a thing - whatever he's been doing wrong of late I believe he has the ability to correct it and as such hope he does, whether via a kick up the aess through being dropped for Ojha or just his own initiative.

 

[Furball]

I know next to nothing about Ojha so I'll gladly not comment on that but how many Tests exactly has Harbhajan played since Kumble retired? Unless my memory's playing tricks on me, not many. And certainly not many on turning decks.

Off the top of my head, 7.

The final Test vs Australia, 2 Tests vs England, 3 Tests in New Zealand and the Test vs Sri Lanka that is currently being played.