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Thread: 18 county system isn't the way forward for English cricket

  1. #151
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    This is a problem for me.

    What do you mean they declined? Why was it a choice in the first place?
    Because that's the way English cricket works. There is no executive or executive board that makes decisions and tells the counties "this is the way it will be", the counties govorn themselves via means of the ECB.

    TBH I think it's petulant and silly for Durham and Worcestershire to decline to trial the pink ball, but I just don't see why it can't be done in a second XI game, where all the rules are the same it's just less of a sacred standard.
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  2. #152
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    Durham v Worcester, definite champions v definitely relegated.

    Durham and Worcester... especially Worcester, bankrupt out of business without ECB handout.

    As you say, "petualnt and silly".

    Having said that, night tests, IN ENGLAND, is a very silly idea indeed, even if only because the crowds for proper games aren't a problem.

  3. #153
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    D'you reckon they're going to be flocking to see Bangladesh next year?

    Aside from when substandard sides are involved they're not a problem, but it's good to see the ECB attempting to take the lead in trialling something that could, elsewhere, be useful to improving the productivity of Test cricket.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hambledon Harry View Post
    Durham and Worcester... especially Worcester, bankrupt out of business without ECB handout.
    Every County is bankrupt and out of business without ECB funding.


  5. #155
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Because that's the way English cricket works. There is no executive or executive board that makes decisions and tells the counties "this is the way it will be", the counties govorn themselves via means of the ECB..
    I realize that - I just think it's ludicrous.
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  6. #156
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Nothing to do with the domestic game and everything to do with the fact that English cricketers generally don't learn the neccessary skills before they reach domestic level.
    Well if the players aren't coming into domestic cricket with the right skills, thus you have a situation like we do have with a group mediocre players playing at a average standard - you have a poor domestic competition. Theirfore it has everything to do with the domestic game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Afridi has looked completely inept for the vast majority of his ODI career - no-one has a hope in hell of success batting as he has pretty much throughout the last 7-8 years.
    I would have to disagree. Around 05/06 when ENG toured PAK i would say Afridi was turning the corner as batsman. Afridi has definately his talent with the bat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Brown is quite obviously a vastly superior batsman to him. Yet he has got countless chances, because his style fits well in the Pakistani mindset; Brown's sits very uncomfortably with the English mindset, so he was never going to get much crack of the whip, and didn't.
    The mindset & style factors are true. But at the same time, i would have to disagree that Brown deserved or could have gotten more chances in the ODI, he just looked a totally different player in ENG colours that he was for surrey

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    No, I don't accept that and never have. Vaughan was simply never good enough to be a good OD batsman, he did not have the basic skills. And yes, surprise surprise, his record in domestic cricket showed that very clearly. Vaughan was always too reliant on conventional strokes along the ground, he was not an innovator nor an over-the-top hitter. I said in 2000/01 when Vaughan was first picked that he was not a ODI-standard player, I was saying it throughout his career and I was right - he wasn't.

    But of course in England Test performances generally mean far more when it comes to selecting for ODIs than domestic cricket.
    No he wasn't. Have a look back at the innings vs AUS CT 04, WI WC 07 & WI 04 last ODI. This is where he was different from Atherton & Cook, in that he had the skills & shots to be a good ODI player.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    If that had been the judgement passed on every player after their first 5-6 innings' we wouldn't have very many batsmen playing international cricket. There is no way Loye's failures of 2006/07 were conclusive ones.

    I wasn't saying he was too old in 2006/07, merely that at that age it was going to be immediate success or no success. And a great many players fail to be successful immediately. Most require a second chance. Loye was too old when first selected to be ever going to get more than one.

    I realise that - I said if. I said myself earlier on that the earliest he could've played was the 2003 summer. I was merely saying that had he debuted at a younger age he could've had more time at the top and could have been brought back after sorting his left-armer flaws.
    Overall this could have definately occured. But given our domestic game basically didn't have 90mph bowlers anyway. I struggle to believe even if he was picked before 2003, he would have come back stronger given that Ali Brown didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I don't really care whether surfaces help the spinners, Ealham is, was and always will be still a far better OD bowler than Giles and should always have played instead of him.
    Haa. Do you not remember the assistance the pitches in SA 03 had on various occassions?. Giles definately had a role to play in the WC especially in that game vs AUS @ P.E. Ealham could have had role in other games though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    He was also always better than White, who was a good ODI bowler for only a year 1999/2000-2000..
    I dont know anything about that, i can remember White's last ODI like yesterday he was superb in that game vs AUS @ P.E. You seriously telling me Ealham could have bowled better?. Please. White when he became international quality in 2000 was very solid in ODIs until he retired.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Ealham was also a far better OD bowler than almost all (sometimes absolutely all) in the country between 1992 and 2009, and should have been a fixture in England's team between the 1991/92 and 2007 World Cups.
    As i said before no way should he have been in 07 WC. Mascarenhas should have been picked instead. I'm not too ofay with ENGs ODI performances in WC 92 & 96, gut given that ENG got to the final i dont see how Ealham would have made that team better. Not sure about 1996 either. But i defiantely believe based on your past deliberations about Ealham you are strecting it, but i'm a still listen to what you have to say..

  7. #157
    International Regular chris.hinton's Avatar
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    English Cricket needs to get rid of the Kolpaks as its seems to be stopping youth developement, i think there should only be a few changes to the systems

    1) Bring back the C and G trophy with Minor Counties and Secondxi/Board xi involved that was a good competition dont know why they gor rid

    2) Minor Counties and Second xi cricket to combined..... 4 groups with semi finals and finals

    3) More A/Lions team games during the English Season

    4) Bring back the Sunday league in 50 over Format.... one division this will being the crowds back.

    5) Twenty20 to expand in 2 groups of 9 play 16 games during the course of the season with finals day.....

  8. #158
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie View Post
    Well if the players aren't coming into domestic cricket with the right skills, thus you have a situation like we do have with a group mediocre players playing at a average standard - you have a poor domestic competition. Theirfore it has everything to do with the domestic game.
    AFAIC, if the problem is with the domestic game then you'd have a case of players with outstanding prowess coming in then failing once they got to county level. But you don't. Young English cricketers just aren't taught well to play - or maybe just don't have a natural aptitude for - the one-day game.
    I would have to disagree. Around 05/06 when ENG toured PAK i would say Afridi was turning the corner as batsman. Afridi has definately his talent with the bat.
    I'd say he played exactly the same on that tour as any other time since he lost his brain in 2002.
    The mindset & style factors are true. But at the same time, i would have to disagree that Brown deserved or could have gotten more chances in the ODI, he just looked a totally different player in ENG colours that he was for surrey
    So you can go through all the batsmen who were selected for ODIs in the late-1990s and early-2000s and honestly tell me they were better and merited a chance more than him?

    Pull t'other one.

    I don't think Brown could've been a ODI-standard batsman myself, frankly. But he was a far-from-outstanding one for Surrey.
    No he wasn't. Have a look back at the innings vs AUS CT 04, WI WC 07 & WI 04 last ODI. This is where he was different from Atherton & Cook, in that he had the skills & shots to be a good ODI player.
    Atherton and, heck, even Cook have played the odd good ODI innings. But the greater pattern shows clearly to me that none of them had the game to do it very often.
    Overall this could have definately occured. But given our domestic game basically didn't have 90mph bowlers anyway. I struggle to believe even if he was picked before 2003, he would have come back stronger given that Ali Brown didn't.
    He may have done; he may not have. But there is no way his failure in the tiny chance he got proves anything about anything, except that a fair few players fail having made the step up.
    Haa. Do you not remember the assistance the pitches in SA 03 had on various occassions?. Giles definately had a role to play in the WC especially in that game vs AUS @ P.E. Ealham could have had role in other games though.
    I remember them well, but Ealham did not require a favourable surface - on anything other than a rank road he was basically unhittable.
    I dont know anything about that, i can remember White's last ODI like yesterday he was superb in that game vs AUS @ P.E. You seriously telling me Ealham could have bowled better?. Please. White when he became international quality in 2000 was very solid in ODIs until he retired.
    White between 2000/01 and 2002/03 was not a very good ODI bowler. Go look up the figures.
    As i said before no way should he have been in 07 WC. Mascarenhas should have been picked instead. I'm not too ofay with ENGs ODI performances in WC 92 & 96, gut given that ENG got to the final i dont see how Ealham would have made that team better. Not sure about 1996 either. But i defiantely believe based on your past deliberations about Ealham you are strecting it, but i'm a still listen to what you have to say..
    Ealham couldn't have played in the 1991/92 WC, but he should've been straight in the following summer, or at worst the next one after that. Given that he consistently outperformed virtually everyone else in the country over the next 15 years, however, he should indeed have been a fixture in the team. And given that so many inferiors of his were instead picked and caned to all parts, that firms it up AFAIC.

  9. #159
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    I realize that - I just think it's ludicrous.
    Your earlier post seemed to suggest you were unaware of this - unfortunately that's basically the way all cricketing governing bodies work.
    Last edited by Richard; 07-10-2009 at 10:54 AM.

  10. #160
    Norwood's on Fire GIMH's Avatar
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  11. #161
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    CBA checking so will just presume you're right there.

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