***Official*** Indian Domestic Season 2007-08

[Manee]

Your comments on my India A Teams
If Gambhir gets a call up, I would play Rahane, due to his strong FC season. Your point about the extra bowler in place of Patel is a good one, but I wish to acknowledge his strong India A season. I would not have Uthappa or Rohit Sharma in the FC team due to their average FC record nor Tiwary due to his poor season. I am also unsure of Yusuf Pathan in a FC team; his off spin looks wholly uninspiring when I have seen him and I would not want someone trying to blast every ball out of the ground in my India A FC team. As for Wasim Jaffer in the ODI team, I have chosen him due to his outstanding performances this year and last in domestic one day tournaments. My picks are based largely on domestic records this season and overrall and Shib Paul bowled well for Bengal in the Vijay Hazare Trophy, IIRC. What sort of pace is he? 115kph? 120kph? or about 125?

Your Board President XI

It would seem that the selectors are not interested in Gagandeep Singh, which baffles me because he has a good record and I have read reports that have him at 130kph. I believe that Ramesh Powar's shocker of a season should have him out of contention for any India A or BP XI team - but his selection for the third Test squad obviously suggests otherwise.

Thanks for your observations. It is difficult to make judgements when I have not seen many of the people play.

 

[Arjun]

If Gambhir gets a call up, I would play Rahane, due to his strong FC season. Your point about the extra bowler in place of Patel is a good one, but I wish to acknowledge his strong India A season. I would not have Uthappa or Rohit Sharma in the FC team due to their average FC record nor Tiwary due to his poor season. I am also unsure of Yusuf Pathan in a FC team; his off spin looks wholly uninspiring when I have seen him and I would not want someone trying to blast every ball out of the ground in my India A FC team. As for Wasim Jaffer in the ODI team, I have chosen him due to his outstanding performances this year and last in domestic one day tournaments. My picks are based largely on domestic records this season and overrall and Shib Paul bowled well for Bengal in the Vijay Hazare Trophy, IIRC. What sort of pace is he? 115kph? 120kph? or about 125?

While we look at Patel's India A record, you don't have to play two wicketkeepers together. You can possibly rotate Patel and Karthik.As for Rahane, he's very far from a national call-up. He may play as an opener, but when there are national contenders like Uthappa around, it's a difficult choice. Uthappa may not have a great average, but playing for India helps a lot. Likewise Sharma and Tewary, who have some top international experience, unlike some other prospects.

Yusuf Pathan isn't merely a ball-blaster, but can put together big innings at six or seven. His off-spin is very useful for a frontline batsman. He's even taken ten wickets and scored a century in the last Ranji season- so we know what he can do. He's yet another alternative to playing five full-time bowlers, and such a player will be useful to the national team, so he should get settled in this team. Five batsmen, Dhoni and someone like Yusuf Pathan will make a good batting combination.

This is a development team (as I look at it) for future India players, and Wasim Jaffer isn't one. That should open up a place for the likes of Rahane and Uthappa. Shib Paul is in the 110-130k range, can't swing or seam, and is useless when not bowling. While it's a good idea to base your selection on domestic records, you also have to look at what they'e made of, how useful they are to the team and how likely they are to make the national team in some time.

It would seem that the selectors are not interested in Gagandeep Singh, which baffles me because he has a good record and I have read reports that have him at 130kph. I believe that Ramesh Powar's shocker of a season should have him out of contention for any India A or BP XI team - but his selection for the third Test squad obviously suggests otherwise.

Gagandeep is only a seam/swing bowler, with no great pace, and isn't even very tall, but he's a very good fielder. He doesn't seem cut out for limited-overs cricket, particularly under lights and with a white ball. Ramesh Powar had barely one bad season, but he may make it ahead by experience, though Rajesh Pawar is also a good choice.

 

[Manee]

You say that Gagandeep does not seem cut out for limited overs cricket, but he has a superb economy rate in it. I would love to see him bowl just to know if his in the Joginder Sharma mould of domestic bully, or if he is a good bowler. I will be interested to see if he is one of the 20 bowlers who will be chosen to train at the new fast bowling wing of the NCA in June. Since it is a four month stint, I would also be interested to see if the bowlers are actually any different. In my opinion, four months is enough to add 10kph to a fast bowler or give one a new weapon, be it an outswinger, inswinger, bouncer or yorker.

 

[Arjun]

You say that Gagandeep does not seem cut out for limited overs cricket, but he has a superb economy rate in it. I would love to see him bowl just to know if his in the Joginder Sharma mould of domestic bully, or if he is a good bowler. I will be interested to see if he is one of the 20 bowlers who will be chosen to train at the new fast bowling wing of the NCA in June. Since it is a four month stint, I would also be interested to see if the bowlers are actually any different. In my opinion, four months is enough to add 10kph to a fast bowler or give one a new weapon, be it an outswinger, inswinger, bouncer or yorker.

I say Gagandeep isn't suited for ODI-style limited-overs cricket. He's done well for a long time in OD's which were played in FC-ish conditions. Being a swing bowler, he may be the 'Joginder Sharma type of domestic bully' with nothing remarkable about him- vis-a-vis Sreesanth with less flattering stats but extra pace and aggression. We don't know if he was ever selected before for that camp, but it would definitely help him if he was exposed to flat pitches or heat or other conditions not conducive to seam bowling. That would help him adapt to new situations. The people in charge can also mark out at least four bowlers (including Sreesanth) to play as aggressive fast bowlers- who will bowl at express pace and deal a few hard blows with the ball- while others use seam and swing.

 

[Manee]

I say Gagandeep isn't suited for ODI-style limited-overs cricket. He's done well for a long time in OD's which were played in FC-ish conditions. Being a swing bowler, he may be the 'Joginder Sharma type of domestic bully' with nothing remarkable about him

Okay, fair enough. India must truly look to improve the biomechanics of bowlers so that the lion share of bowlers at 130kph rather than 120kph like Joginder Sharma. This is not taking away from Jogi, but the trend of bowlers in domestic cricket is that they are all slightly too slow for international cricket.

- vis-a-vis Sreesanth with less flattering stats but extra pace and aggression.

I disagree with Sreesanth being put into that bracket - and his consequential selection. Simply put, I do not think that he has the pace (topping at just 145kph in ODIs and about 140kph in Tests), nor the stamina (to bowl at that pace for more than 3 overs before being tired for the rest of the day) to be selected for his pace and agression.

We don't know if he was ever selected before for that camp, but it would definitely help him if he was exposed to flat pitches or heat or other conditions not conducive to seam bowling. That would help him adapt to new situations.

Previous camps have been more informal, IIRC. I believe that this will be a permanent, annual event at the NCA's new wing. I do not watch domestic cricket, but surely bowlers are already exposed to conditions not conducive to seam bowling by playing in India. Even though Gagandeep's home ground is Mohali, which seams a bit, his record away from home in FC games is a good average of 25 (I remember calculating it a little while ago).

The people in charge can also mark out at least four bowlers (including Sreesanth) to play as aggressive fast bowlers- who will bowl at express pace and deal a few hard blows with the ball- while others use seam and swing.

India do not have one bowler capable of bowling spells at over 135kph nor deliveries at near 150kph - so I am sceptical of such an arrangement. VRV Singh, the great fast bowling hope, was just 130kph in the Duleep Trophy final and Munaf Patel has only ever topped in Test matches at 144.9kph and does not have the stamina to sustain pace for long; even Ishant Sharma bowls mostly in the 130-140kph area with the exception of the quicker ball - his 150kph delivery in Australia was likely an anomalous reading too (or the result of a faulty speed gun), as the Indian speed gun recorded a pace of 144kph.

 

[Arjun]

Okay, fair enough. India must truly look to improve the biomechanics of bowlers so that the lion share of bowlers at 130kph rather than 120kph like Joginder Sharma. This is not taking away from Jogi, but the trend of bowlers in domestic cricket is that they are all slightly too slow for international cricket.

Truth is, even the likes of Joginder Sharma should be used to good effect, because of the value they create, so they too need to add some pace. Come to think of it, this is a national problem, and some awareness needs to be generated out there.

I disagree with Sreesanth being put into that bracket - and his consequential selection. Simply put, I do not think that he has the pace (topping at just 145kph in ODIs and about 140kph in Tests), nor the stamina (to bowl at that pace for more than 3 overs before being tired for the rest of the day) to be selected for his pace and agression.

Sreesanth has bowled the fastest among all India bowlers, and has been the most consistent with pace. Unfortunately, with India often picking only four bowlers, all of them are overbowled and it tells on them- as it does on Sreesanth's reduced pace. Not to mention, there are too many 'wise old folks' who keep telling that pace isn't everything and they need to swing the ball to get wickets. Sreesanth, if anything, should do a Dale Steyn, and the captain should take him off if he's getting tired.

Previous camps have been more informal, IIRC. I believe that this will be a permanent, annual event at the NCA's new wing. I do not watch domestic cricket, but surely bowlers are already exposed to conditions not conducive to seam bowling by playing in India. Even though Gagandeep's home ground is Mohali, which seams a bit, his record away from home in FC games is a good average of 25 (I remember calculating it a little while ago).

You'd be amazed at how many seam/swing bowlers average less than 30 or even 25 in India. Yet, none of them make the Indian team, and are stuck for a long time in the domestic scene. They need some extra pace (possibly loads of it) to make the step up. Again, a case of awareness and infrastructure.

India do not have one bowler capable of bowling spells at over 135kph nor deliveries at near 150kph - so I am sceptical of such an arrangement. VRV Singh, the great fast bowling hope, was just 130kph in the Duleep Trophy final and Munaf Patel has only ever topped in Test matches at 144.9kph and does not have the stamina to sustain pace for long; even Ishant Sharma bowls mostly in the 130-140kph area with the exception of the quicker ball - his 150kph delivery in Australia was likely an anomalous reading too (or the result of a faulty speed gun), as the Indian speed gun recorded a pace of 144kph.

We've had these Fastest Bowler Hunts and they've only shown a top speed of 135-138k under competition conditions. As we've said, there needs to be awareness and infrastructure, and they need that biomechanical improvement. Start with someone who's maintained speed over 135k, and then put him through the process. Sreesanth would benefit a great deal, especially because of his fitness- making him a genuine pace prospect, as against the perenially unfit Munaf and VRV Singh.

 

[Manee]

Truth is, even the likes of Joginder Sharma should be used to good effect, because of the value they create, so they too need to add some pace. Come to think of it, this is a national problem, and some awareness needs to be generated out there.

Yes! People need to be told upfront that a medium pacer must have a minimum average pace of 125kph.

Sreesanth has bowled the fastest among all India bowlers, and has been the most consistent with pace. Unfortunately, with India often picking only four bowlers, all of them are overbowled and it tells on them- as it does on Sreesanth's reduced pace.

I disagree. Sreesanth has never maintained over 140kph for over a spell - even when he first discovered his increased pace.

Not to mention, there are too many 'wise old folks' who keep telling that pace isn't everything and they need to swing the ball to get wickets. Sreesanth, if anything, should do a Dale Steyn, and the captain should take him off if he's getting tired.

No. I am against giving such privledges to Sreesanth. Sreesanth is not really that good (nor fast) and should not be in the Test side, imo.

You'd be amazed at how many seam/swing bowlers average less than 30 or even 25 in India. Yet, none of them make the Indian team, and are stuck for a long time in the domestic scene. They need some extra pace (possibly loads of it) to make the step up.

But few average under 25 in FC cricket, over many seasons, like Gagandeep Singh.

Again, a case of awareness and infrastructure.We've had these Fastest Bowler Hunts and they've only shown a top speed of 135-138k under competition conditions. As we've said, there needs to be awareness and infrastructure, and they need that biomechanical improvement. Start with someone who's maintained speed over 135k, and then put him through the process.

Definately. It is highly disheartening that India's fast bowler hunts can only produce paces of just 135-138kph. Just looking at England alone, there is talk of a teenager who has been timed at 96mph.

Sreesanth would benefit a great deal, especially because of his fitness- making him a genuine pace prospect, as against the perenially unfit Munaf and VRV Singh.

My point is that Sreesanth is not that fit. He has poor stamina and is not strong enough to sustain pace when he does not sprint in. When he does not have the energy to jog in, he becomes a most unthreatening bowler. I do rate Munaf Patel, but the man has no potential as an express fast bowler - even when fully fit, he only touches 145kph once per innings.

 

[Arjun]

I disagree. Sreesanth has never maintained over 140kph for over a spell - even when he first discovered his increased pace. I am against giving such privledges to Sreesanth. Sreesanth is not really that good (nor fast) and should not be in the Test side, imo. My point is that Sreesanth is not that fit. He has poor stamina and is not strong enough to sustain pace when he does not sprint in. When he does not have the energy to jog in, he becomes a most unthreatening bowler. I do rate Munaf Patel, but the man has no potential as an express fast bowler - even when fully fit, he only touches 145kph once per innings.

Maybe you're right, but if anyone is suitable to play the role of an attacking (if not express) pace bowler, Sreesanth is the best option. You can't expect that from someone like RP Singh or Irfan Pathan or Praveen Kumar. If Sreesanth doesn't have it, these camps should help him. He's got the raw material that not too many others have. If he can add some 10k of pace, he'll benefit a lot, and so will every other prospect for the role.

Munaf Patel's fitness is one big IF- he won't last a whole series, and his mannerisms itself suggest that he's got fitness issues, when he's not bowling- he's absolutely hopeless on the field. He's also quite lazy, as we can notice, on and off the field. VRV Singh is quite aggressive a character, but a whole lot of injuries seem to have reduced his pace and weakened him on the field as well. You'll notice that almost all express pace bowlers are very good fielders- possibly good athletes. Ultimately, a very intensive pace-oriented camp will help fix these problems, but Ishant Sharma is one who could do without such a camp- he's doing just right without bowling at express pace.

 

[Manee]

The camp are for non squad members, because India will be taking on Sri Lanka IIRC.

I believe that Sreesanth could increase his pace if he just completed the action by swinging the arms through totally rather than sort of 'bowling through the seam' and pushing it to the batsman. Sreesanth also seems to lack pace off the pitch and through the air, despite his fast release speed - I can't put my finger on it but batsmen are never rushed against him and his balls look like they float somewhat - perhaps it is due to his excellent seam position - I don't know.

As for pace bowlers being good fielders, I'd say that it is because athletes can possess better actions due to natural flexibility and strength and athletes are naturally better fielders. Someone like Bob Willis was fast (been timed at 145kph) but was a poor fielder.

As for Munaf Patel, I think that he could benefit from spending perhaps the entire off season with a focus on fitness. I do not believe that anyone's fitness is beyond all hope and if he worked tirelessly on leg strength and running fitness, I think that the results could be miraculous. As for stiffening up after a spell, perhaps he could take a page from Jason Gillespie's book (not an actual book of course) and stretch imbetween overs and spells. Tests could be conducted on him to see which muscles exactly stiffen up, but my guess is the quads.

 

[Arjun]

The camp are for non squad members, because India will be taking on Sri Lanka IIRC.

I believe that Sreesanth could increase his pace if he just completed the action by swinging the arms through totally rather than sort of 'bowling through the seam' and pushing it to the batsman. Sreesanth also seems to lack pace off the pitch and through the air, despite his fast release speed - I can't put my finger on it but batsmen are never rushed against him and his balls look like they float somewhat - perhaps it is due to his excellent seam position - I don't know.

As for pace bowlers being good fielders, I'd say that it is because athletes can possess better actions due to natural flexibility and strength and athletes are naturally better fielders. Someone like Bob Willis was fast (been timed at 145kph) but was a poor fielder.

As for Munaf Patel, I think that he could benefit from spending perhaps the entire off season with a focus on fitness. I do not believe that anyone's fitness is beyond all hope and if he worked tirelessly on leg strength and running fitness, I think that the results could be miraculous. As for stiffening up after a spell, perhaps he could take a page from Jason Gillespie's book (not an actual book of course) and stretch imbetween overs and spells. Tests could be conducted on him to see which muscles exactly stiffen up, but my guess is the quads.

What is your opinion, action-wise, of VRV Singh? I've seen him run straight, very often- unusually close to the stumps. He's been clocked slower than Munaf and even Sreesanth, even at peak. He's had a history of recurring injuries, but when he does geta match, he blows away batting sides quickly. He may not be cut out for ODI's (remember Harmison?), but when India's best ODI bowlers may be slow-medium pacers, he can't be ruled out easily. Fielding is a problem with him as well- again, fitness issues.

Among those options you consider good enough for India, whom would you slot for that role? Looking at the Indians' performance at Chennai and A'bad, seam and swng is simply not enough, and you need an express pace bowler, or at least an attacking pace bowler to 'bulldoze' a batting lineup- even someone like Ntini. Zaheer Khan would have been the best bet, but he's lost a lot of pace and isn't fully fit yet. Disappointing, when he was India's fastest not too long ago.

 

[Arjun]

Back to India A and Board XI

What would you do with Irfan Pathan? Since he's not likely to get too many Test matches, he'll help himself greatly by playing for India A, through which he got into the national team. He's just got it right as a batsman, but needs to find his feet as a bowler. After a long time on the sidelines, he's got back his pace, but the swing isn't quite back, and he still struggles when bowling with an old ball, and won't last the unusually long (24-over) workload he's often put through in Tests. Ideally, he should open the bowling for India A and return on the back of a bagful of wickets in one series- and we know what he can do at his best. With the selectors handing out caps to fatigued and unfit swing bowlers who contribute a lot less, a fit and in-form Irfan is needed, sooner than later- but he needs to be phased in at the right time, not rushed in too soon.

His brother is also quite useful, and having seen him in action in the List-A matches, I know this bloke is an India prospect. At 6'4", with that build, he's possibly India's answer to Pietersen, Fulton, Kemp and Gayle- big-built batsmen with an array of strokes, who can hit the ball a long way without playing too forcefully. His off-spin looks innocuous, but at his height, he can extract a lot of bounce, and can be tough to hit out of the park. While he's more effective with the ball in OD's, he can do just as well as a stock bowler in the longer form of the game- and he's also taken ten wickets in the same match in which he scored a century.

And of course, there are young recruits Sudeep Tyagi and Pradeep Sangwan. Both have been in the wickets in this season, Tyagi leading the pack. They seem quite fast, from what we've seen on the speedguns, but edging out Irfan and Praveen Kumar (soon to be a regular in ODI's) and also Pankaj Singh will be difficult. There may be more new recruits from the national team coming back to India A to find form or to get more experience or action (particularly Uthappa and RP Singh), but it shouldn't be used as one springboard for players who've often been found wanting (or add no value) just to get a little action, or play for their places in the national team. Selections of Bahutule, Sharandeep and especially VVS Laxman (in 2003, why would a senior member of the national team be wasted here?) are examples of wasted selections in the India A team- let's hope that doesn't happen again.

 

[Manee]

What is your opinion, action-wise, of VRV Singh? I've seen him run straight, very often- unusually close to the stumps. He's been clocked slower than Munaf and even Sreesanth, even at peak. He's had a history of recurring injuries, but when he does geta match, he blows away batting sides quickly. He may not be cut out for ODI's (remember Harmison?), but when India's best ODI bowlers may be slow-medium pacers, he can't be ruled out easily. Fielding is a problem with him as well- again, fitness issues.

I have not seen enough of VRV Singh's bowling and cannot find any clips of him to judge his action, but from what I remember, his action relies on getting close to the stumps and simply getting pace from how fast the body is moving and how fast the arm goes through. His action seems to be a matter of how much energy he can put in on a given day.

Among those options you consider good enough for India, whom would you slot for that role? Looking at the Indians' performance at Chennai and A'bad, seam and swng is simply not enough, and you need an express pace bowler, or at least an attacking pace bowler to 'bulldoze' a batting lineup- even someone like Ntini. Zaheer Khan would have been the best bet, but he's lost a lot of pace and isn't fully fit yet. Disappointing, when he was India's fastest not too long ago.

Zaheer Khan was never express pace though. He used to time in the 135-140kph region, but was only more than that in the 2003 World Cup - where all paces were up. I believe that India must look to train VRV Singh to take up the role of an attacking bowler (or a third seamer when India play the one spinner). His line is an impeccable one in the corridor and he merely suffers from lack of length control - something which can be helped with a lot of training and target practice. May I ask if it is the length is the reason for his high economy rate?

Back to India A and Board XI

What would you do with Irfan Pathan? Since he's not likely to get too many Test matches, he'll help himself greatly by playing for India A, through which he got into the national team. He's just got it right as a batsman, but needs to find his feet as a bowler. After a long time on the sidelines, he's got back his pace, but the swing isn't quite back, and he still struggles when bowling with an old ball, and won't last the unusually long (24-over) workload he's often put through in Tests. Ideally, he should open the bowling for India A and return on the back of a bagful of wickets in one series- and we know what he can do at his best. With the selectors handing out caps to fatigued and unfit swing bowlers who contribute a lot less, a fit and in-form Irfan is needed, sooner than later- but he needs to be phased in at the right time, not rushed in too soon.

I believe that the work that Sekhar and Lillee did with Pathan's action is not complete. IIRC, the MRF Pace Foundation's short stint (it is part time, I believe) coincides with the end of and after the IPL - Pathan should possibly look to return to further perfect his action. He could maybe look to return to Wasim Akram too, who can help him with old ball skills - his weakness from the start of his career. I don't think that he should play for India A, he will not clean teams up as before as he has lost his banana swing (notice his poor performance on his last India A tour) - net training would be the best course of action for him, imo.

I have posted on Pathan's action on another forum, he is an extract:

I believe that a possible reason for Pathan losing some swing is because, as he changed his action, he is jumping further forward in the action and consequently collapsing a bit at the crease, releasing the ball from a weaker, lower position without the fingers and wrist having as much control - the lower position of the front arm may be a cause for this also. I also feel that he underuses his front arm, which causes him to push the ball away from the right hander rather than swing it, when his wrist gets lazy. This is another problem that I suffer from; except, I struggle to swing it in - ever. lol

I remember watching a clip of Wasim Akram analysis Irfan Pathan's swing saying that he swings the ball with a rotation of the wrist, rather than RP Singh who locks it in the inswing position. I think that with such a movement, an easier action on the body would be preferable. In his earlier days, his arms swung all over the place and now they are locked in a robotic position - I just think that he needs to relax during the action, whilst keeping his shape. While I was working on my own action, I noticed that I ran in much like Pathan, with the arms rigid and, using a speed gun to time my running, I found that I could run much faster with a more orthodox running style, with the arms free to swing back and forth. I believe that the run up may be a reason that his action seems quite jerky rather than flowing in a relaxed fashion as it did very early in his international career.

One thing that baffles me though, is why he never could bowl a threatening bouncer and why his short of a length balls always have sat up - with both, his new action and his old one. I am starting to sound like a broken record, but I suffer from a lack of a threatening short of a length or bouncer delivery even though I, like Pathan, can exert good bounce off a length. I'd be interested to hear why people think that he cannot bowl a threatening bouncer and why his short of a length balls look like they were delivered at 115kph rather than 130kph.

He gets a lot of pressure on him too to perform at Test level and people talk about his decline. However, he was never a fantastic Test bowler and his Test statistics have been boosted by performances against the early Bangladesh and a very weak Zimbabwe - this is something that must be taken into consideration when people say 'he used to be a very good Test bowler but now he isn't'.

His brother is also quite useful, and having seen him in action in the List-A matches, I know this bloke is an India prospect. At 6'4", with that build, he's possibly India's answer to Pietersen, Fulton, Kemp and Gayle- big-built batsmen with an array of strokes, who can hit the ball a long way without playing too forcefully. His off-spin looks innocuous, but at his height, he can extract a lot of bounce, and can be tough to hit out of the park. While he's more effective with the ball in OD's, he can do just as well as a stock bowler in the longer form of the game- and he's also taken ten wickets in the same match in which he scored a century.

The low List A average worries me though - even for a slogging role, an average of closer 35.00 would be expected on Indian decks rather than his 27.97. His strike rate of 114.24 is highly impressive, but I'd probably want him to work on his bowling (especially the wicket taking aspect) a bit more before I'd happily accept such an inconsistent batsman. There is the inherant risk that he simply will not be able to score freely of international bowlers all the time and he needs bowling to fall back on in that situation.

And of course, there are young recruits Sudeep Tyagi and Pradeep Sangwan. Both have been in the wickets in this season, Tyagi leading the pack. They seem quite fast, from what we've seen on the speedguns, but edging out Irfan and Praveen Kumar (soon to be a regular in ODI's) and also Pankaj Singh will be difficult. There may be more new recruits from the national team coming back to India A to find form or to get more experience or action (particularly Uthappa and RP Singh), but it shouldn't be used as one springboard for players who've often been found wanting (or add no value) just to get a little action, or play for their places in the national team. Selections of Bahutule, Sharandeep and especially VVS Laxman (in 2003, why would a senior member of the national team be wasted here?) are examples of wasted selections in the India A team- let's hop that doesn't happen again.

I would want Sangwan and Tyagi to perform in one or two more seasons before I'd think of calling them up to the international setup. I assume that by 'quite fast', you mean averaging at about 130kph? I have seen clips of Sangwan from the U19 World Cup and was quite impressed, he has a good action and can swing it in with good carry (someone like Pathan has poor carry). I believe that India should utilise two XIs, who should tour together. There should be an Indian Second XI and an Indian Youth XI. The former is what it says on the tin whereas the second is exclusively for youngsters like Manoj Tiwari, Sangwan and Tyagi who are in contention due to just one (or two) good seasons.

 

[Arjun]

I believe that the work that Sekhar and Lillee did with Pathan's action is not complete. IIRC, the MRF Pace Foundation's short stint (it is part time, I believe) coincides with the end of and after the IPL - Pathan should possibly look to return to further perfect his action. He could maybe look to return to Wasim Akram too, who can help him with old ball skills - his weakness from the start of his career. I don't think that he should play for India A, he will not clean teams up as before as he has lost his banana swing (notice his poor performance on his last India A tour) - net training would be the best course of action for him, imo.

We don't know what Sekhar and Lillee have been doing to India's bowlers, but none of what they have tried has ever worked. Strangely, the MRF Pace Foundation, which has created several international bowlers, has not provided a single pace bowler to the Indian team since Srinath. We can't bank on them- even Frazer and Krebs can do a lot better.

Ravi Shastri says that Irfan should go to Wasim Akram for advice and nobody else. Maybe he's got his swing back, but he's not getting anything out of an old ball. Reverting to bowling with the new ball will certainly help, as there's still a position left for that. He won't be match-ready unless he plays more matches- which is very different from net practice. Rather than leave him out for supposedly better bowlers in the India A team, he should play more matches to play himself back in form.

There's no real harm in him returning to India A- after all, he too iis like the rest of the newcomers, as of now- just a little ahead. As for that one series, he averaged 23.29 against those two teams, and also did well against Sri Lanka A- and, of course, finished the Australia series with an average of 28.62, in a time when Indian pacers struggle to avearge less than 30, That may not be enough for a regular fixture in the Indian team yet, but he's surely a better bet than some silly selections for India A to fill up the numbers.

The low List A average worries me though - even for a slogging role, an average of closer 35.00 would be expected on Indian decks rather than his 27.97. His strike rate of 114.24 is highly impressive, but I'd probably want him to work on his bowling (especially the wicket taking aspect) a bit more before I'd happily accept such an inconsistent batsman. There is the inherant risk that he simply will not be able to score freely of international bowlers all the time and he needs bowling to fall back on in that situation.

Yusuf has been a little out of form with the bat lately, but he had that dream season in 06-07 where he averaged over 50. He's had a great FC season with an average over 44, with three centuries. He has certainly taken a lot more wickets in this season than previously- three times over five till this season, and five times in the season itself- with a big ten. But with him, it's not about the figures alone, but what he's made of- in the latter aspect, he's just right. He's thrashed most bowling attacks, including those with internationals (and who can forget that six in the opening over of the T20 Champs final off Asif?), so he can do just as well for India A.

I would want Sangwan and Tyagi to perform in one or two more seasons before I'd think of calling them up to the international setup. I assume that by 'quite fast', you mean averaging at about 130kph? I have seen clips of Sangwan from the U19 World Cup and was quite impressed, he has a good action and can swing it in with good carry (someone like Pathan has poor carry). I believe that India should utilise two XIs, who should tour together. There should be an Indian Second XI and an Indian Youth XI. The former is what it says on the tin whereas the second is exclusively for youngsters like Manoj Tiwari, Sangwan and Tyagi who are in contention due to just one (or two) good seasons.

Both are distant from a national call-up, but they're young, and have just the right raw material. This A team is best used as a development team, where future prospects can get some experience and a lot of action. Rather than use two XI's, they can make the touring India A team predominantly full of youngsters with the odd old hand, and the host Board XI virtually a Second XI, with a few new recruits- but neither team should end up like a Rejects XI or Play-for-your-place-in-Team-India XI as has often been the case in the past.

 

[Arjun]

What would you do with the Challenger Trophy? Way back in 2002, a day before the corresponding edition began, ESPN/STAR uploaded an article by Harsha Bhogle, highly critical of the Challenger series. He said that it only encourages individual performances, not those of the team. It's obvious, why. With a maximum of barely three matches each player gets, all of them are under pressure to perform, with selectors watching. The selectors, themselves, are also guilty, as they often overlook (dreadful) team dynamics, focussing on individual brilliance. Not surprisingly, the players who've been heroes in the Challengers have been duds when they've played over a much longer timeframe for India.

The tournament needs to be revamped, and the focus, shifted. The tournament serves best as a workout for the national team, to see how well the play together, and to analyse strengths, weaknesses, strategies and means of improvement. The youngsters can use this as a learning experience for the future matches they play, at any level- learning from the 'stars'. This will help all the players involved, and those who wish to play for India can try harder in the Duleep/Deodhar Trophy. We'd also like to see the tournament revert to the Seniors/A/B format, with a full-strength India Seniors playing the event.

 

[Manee]

What would you do with the Challenger Trophy? Way back in 2002, a day before the corresponding edition began, ESPN/STAR uploaded an article by Harsha Bhogle, highly critical of the Challenger series. He said that it only encourages individual performances, not those of the team. It's obvious, why. With a maximum of barely three matches each player gets, all of them are under pressure to perform, with selectors watching. The selectors, themselves, are also guilty, as they often overlook (dreadful) team dynamics, focussing on individual brilliance. Not surprisingly, the players who've been heroes in the Challengers have been duds when they've played over a much longer timeframe for India.

The tournament needs to be revamped, and the focus, shifted. The tournament serves best as a workout for the national team, to see how well the play together, and to analyse strengths, weaknesses, strategies and means of improvement. The youngsters can use this as a learning experience for the future matches they play, at any level- learning from the 'stars'. This will help all the players involved, and those who wish to play for India can try harder in the Duleep/Deodhar Trophy. We'd also like to see the tournament revert to the Seniors/A/B format, with a full-strength India Seniors playing the event.

The issue is that the zonal competitions are also seen as individualistic. It would seem that the key may lie in utilising the IPL in order to pay for facilities over the vast amount of domestic teams and attracting high profile coaches to the team; such as TA Sekhar and Dennis Lillee (who have joined the Delhi Daredevils). The BCCI should possibly also try to isolate the lowest of the low domestic teams and turn them into a 'Minor County'-esque status - below the top State teams. The standard needs to be raised, but reducing the number of teams in different competitions is solution here, imo...

As for the Challenger Trophy - I would scrap the tournament and conduct a five match ODI series between India Seniors and India Juniors. Even this tournament has the standard diluted too much and they should look to isolate the cream of the young crop and pit them against the non-rested international stars and the domestic stalwarts.

 

[Arjun]

You can't do without the zonal events. This is a large cricketing country, and it's difficult to prune through all of the states to get a good team. While it's one issue that you need to have the best team playing for India, you need the best players from all over India, not just the few power centres. The zonal events will prune the base in each zone, so at that level, you have the best of all prospects in the country. This system is just right, but needs to be put to good use, rather than the current misuse, or scrapping it to copy a scheme that's unsuitable for the country.

The Challenger Trophy, when it started out, was a good idea, but it became what Harsha calls a 'circus tournament' when it became a selection springboard. While you've got a good idea of India Seniors v/s India Juniors, I'd suggest a triangular between India Senior XI, India Second XI and India Development XI. The selectors should be (preferably) kept away from this event, so that teams can concentrate on keeping team dynamics in order.

 

[Manee]

Do people believe that the IPL franchises (or at least the teams) should be used in the Duleep and Deodhar Trophy to rejuvinate the tournaments?

 

[honestbharani]

Do people believe that the IPL franchises (or at least the teams) should be used in the Duleep and Deodhar Trophy to rejuvinate the tournaments?

I won't mind... I wonder if they will agree though...

 

[Arjun]

They can, however, use the IPL model to a limited degree (split the teams) in the Ranji/ROD events. Not quite auctioning, but the foreign players distributed across teams based on what they need- and players stay within their states or CA's.