Law Query

Neil Pickup · 15-04-2007, 03:44 PM

Okay - quite simple:

1) Batsman edges ball
2) Keeper makes hideous mess of attempting to catch it
3) Ball hits keeper's helmet
4) Keeper catches it

Out?

I gave it today but, soon after, remembered the bit of law that decreed that a ball cannot be a "fair catch" if it hits a fielder's protective helmet. I can't find any clarification as to whether that includes keepers or not.

nightprowler10 · 15-04-2007, 03:51 PM

Pretty sure it includes the keeper's helmet as well. There was a similar incident during the Pakistan vs West Indies match in Karachi last year, where Imran Farhat caught out Shiv (I think) at short leg after it seemed to have deflected off of his own helmet's visor. The decision went to the third umpire and he ruled that the ball had not hit the helmet.

So even if the ball hits the helmet of the fielder who is attempting to catch it, the ball is considered dead.

Goughy · 15-04-2007, 03:56 PM

Not Out though it takes a bit of piecing together,

If the ball hits a fielders helmet then is is not out (though the ball is still in play) and the only difference regarding fielding the ball for a keeper is that they are allowed to field the ball with their gloves and pads.

For the helmet, a keeper is given no special conditions.

Laws 40 and 32 (IIRC) deal with the issues in hand

AussieDominance · 15-04-2007, 04:07 PM

Yeah the ball is considred dead when it hit's the helmet thus should not be out.

Goughy · 15-04-2007, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AussieDominance

Yeah the ball is considred dead when it hit's the helmet thus should not be out.

It isnt considered dead. Law 32.3.e

It just isnt a fair catch

nightprowler10 · 15-04-2007, 04:21 PM

Interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Law 32.3.e

A fair catch if a fielder catches the ball after it has touched an umpire, another fielder or the other batsman. However, it is not a fair catch if the ball has touched a protective helmet worn by a fielder, although the ball remains in play.

I guess the ball is only dead if it lodges into the helmet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Law 23.1.vi

The ball is dead if it lodges in a protective helmet worn by a member of the fielding side.

Learn something new everyday.

AussieDominance · 15-04-2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goughy

It isnt considered dead. Law 32.3.e

It just isnt a fair catch

I was going on the basis I noticed an International Umpire(can't remember who) a few years ago calling it dead once it hit the helmet it was a game on the subcontinent.

Barney Rubble · 15-04-2007, 05:53 PM

Rodgie's use of Richard's avatar is rather confusing, FWIW.

Prince EWS · 15-04-2007, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barney Rubble

Rodgie's use of Richard's avatar is rather confusing, FWIW.

Yes, it is dire. Let us hope he never figures out that glitch that allows people to create usernames exactly the same as already-registered ones...

SJS · 16-04-2007, 01:26 AM

What if the ball had gone up after hitting the short leg's pads (often worn under the trousers) ??

Barney Rubble · 16-04-2007, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJS

What if the ball had gone up after hitting the short leg's pads (often worn under the trousers) ??

I'm guessing no-one would know. It would just look like it had hit his shin, and therefore would count as a catch.

open365 · 16-04-2007, 06:23 AM

Yeh if it hits his shin pads when he's at short leg it counts as a catch, i'm pretty sure i've seen it happen before.

nightprowler10 · 16-04-2007, 06:31 AM

I think the pads are considered part of the fielder/keeper's person.

Barney Rubble · 16-04-2007, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightprowler10

I think the pads are considered part of the fielder/keeper's person.

Yeah, actually, come to think of it, I've seen someone given out when the ball rested in the top of the keeper's pads before, so that must be the case. Either that, or the umpire was wrong in that particular case.

Perm · 16-04-2007, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barney Rubble

Yeah, actually, come to think of it, I've seen someone given out when the ball rested in the top of the keeper's pads before, so that must be the case. Either that, or the umpire was wrong in that particular case.

Always thought it would be declared as a dead ball if the ball did indeed become lodged in either the batsmans or wicket keepers pads.

15-04-2007, 03:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
Neil Pickup Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oxford, England Posts: 26,361	Law Query Okay - quite simple: 1) Batsman edges ball 2) Keeper makes hideous mess of attempting to catch it 3) Ball hits keeper's helmet 4) Keeper catches it Out? I gave it today but, soon after, remembered the bit of law that decreed that a ball cannot be a "fair catch" if it hits a fielder's protective helmet. I can't find any clarification as to whether that includes keepers or not. __________________ MSN Messenger: minardineil2000 at hotmail dot com \| AAAS Chairman CricketWeb Black \| CricketWeb XI Captain ClarkeWatch: We're Watching Rikki - Are You? Up The Grecians - Exeter City FC Completing the Square: My Cricket Web Blog

15-04-2007, 03:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
nightprowler10 Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Madhouse on Madison Posts: 13,389	Pretty sure it includes the keeper's helmet as well. There was a similar incident during the Pakistan vs West Indies match in Karachi last year, where Imran Farhat caught out Shiv (I think) at short leg after it seemed to have deflected off of his own helmet's visor. The decision went to the third umpire and he ruled that the ball had not hit the helmet. So even if the ball hits the helmet of the fielder who is attempting to catch it, the ball is considered dead. __________________ Can't decide on a signature? Why not Zoidberg? (\/) (;,,;) (\/) RIP Craigos

15-04-2007, 03:56 PM	#3 (permalink)
Goughy International Coach Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: All Over Posts: 14,638	Not Out though it takes a bit of piecing together, If the ball hits a fielders helmet then is is not out (though the ball is still in play) and the only difference regarding fielding the ball for a keeper is that they are allowed to field the ball with their gloves and pads. For the helmet, a keeper is given no special conditions. Laws 40 and 32 (IIRC) deal with the issues in hand __________________ If I only just posted the above post, please wait 5 mins before replying as there is bound to be edits West Robham Rabid Wolves Caedere lemma quod eat lemma Happy Birthday! (easier than using Birthday threads) Email and MSN- Goughy at cricketmail dot net

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15-04-2007, 04:07 PM	#4 (permalink)
AussieDominance Banned Join Date: May 2006 Location: Sydney Posts: 3,746	Yeah the ball is considred dead when it hit's the helmet thus should not be out.

15-04-2007, 05:53 PM	#8 (permalink)
Barney Rubble International Coach Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: All over the shop Posts: 10,191	Rodgie's use of Richard's avatar is rather confusing, FWIW.

16-04-2007, 01:26 AM	#10 (permalink)
SJS Hall of Fame Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Mumbai India Posts: 19,170	What if the ball had gone up after hitting the short leg's pads (often worn under the trousers) ??

16-04-2007, 06:23 AM	#12 (permalink)
open365 International Vice-Captain Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: liverpool Posts: 4,066	Yeh if it hits his shin pads when he's at short leg it counts as a catch, i'm pretty sure i've seen it happen before.

16-04-2007, 06:31 AM	#13 (permalink)
nightprowler10 Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Madhouse on Madison Posts: 13,389	I think the pads are considered part of the fielder/keeper's person.

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