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Thread: England captaincy and ODIs

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Ed_ View Post
    I think Collingwood would be an excellent ODI captain. He's the kind of player who can lead by example with bat, ball and in the field and I have no doubt he'd be a strong tactical leader as well.
    Would be very different to KP being captain, that's for sure. I agree with the points you make about how he sets a good example in whatever discipline he is participating in and he is basically assured of a spot unless struck down by injury. Wouldn't be a bad idea to have a skipper who, while not the most talented, obviously leads by example and is very enthusiastic about what he does.
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    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ash_A55 View Post
    Does Collingwood have the full respect of the players? whenever I see him, he seems to be rather quiet. Not the best quality for a skipper.
    If there's one thing Collingwood would have, it'd be the respect of his peers, IMO.
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  3. #33
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Well... not really.

    A strike-rate of 55 or whatever it was is hardly outstanding.
    59, with an average of over 35 and 2 tons and 12 fifties in 54 knocks.

    Back in a time when the game was much more even between bat and ball.

    Even better is his average at home - 21 innings he got 2 tons and 7 fifties in averaging 47.78 at a time when ODIs in England started when there was a bit of damp in the air...
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    If there's one thing Collingwood would have, it'd be the respect of his peers, IMO.
    Indeed, it would be foolish of his team-mates not to respect him. He's not the most talented, but he's definately someone who never gives up.


  5. #35
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    Agree with Marc on the point about Atherton. People will look at his stats, and see that by and whole, they are poor compared to nowadays, and will assume that he is crap. He was actually a pretty decent opener that England could do with now.
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  6. #36
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    59, with an average of over 35 and 2 tons and 12 fifties in 54 knocks.

    Back in a time when the game was much more even between bat and ball.
    Not really - ODIs are little different now to 1995 or 1997, other than the colour of the ball and clothing and various other cosmetic-effect things used or not used in England.

    It's not like Atherton played in 1984.
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  7. #37
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixFire View Post
    Agree with Marc on the point about Atherton. People will look at his stats, and see that by and whole, they are poor compared to nowadays, and will assume that he is crap. He was actually a pretty decent opener that England could do with now.
    I honestly don't know that we could. He'd be a better bet than Strauss or Vaughan, yes, but I can honestly see him being criticised heavily for failing to make use of the PowerPlays. While Atherton could and very occasionally did play shots, he didn't do so at all often.

  8. #38
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chopper6 View Post
    I think that with KP at the helm, England would actually have a punt. I don't think he would make the correct decision all the time but when he did make a mistake, it would be playing attacking cricket rather than being to cautious or defensive which has been the biggest captaincy problem England has had.

    KP ego would allow him to captain the way he wanted and not the way which pleased the board the most. I think with KP at the helm, decisions such as Panesar for Giles, and dropping Jones last ashes would be made without beurocratic bull****e
    I doubt Pietersen being captain would have made the slightest mark on any of those, TBH.

  9. #39
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perm View Post
    Pietersen, Flintoff and Collingwood are all in with a shout of being made the ODI captain if the selectors do wish to drop Vaughan and Strauss, who quite clearly aren't good enough. All three of the names I mentioned at the start of my post are guarranteed of their position in the ODI side (injury withstanding) so they are all candidates for the captaincy. Personally I would like it being given to KP as I think an aggressive approach to the ODI cricket that England play would be a good idea, however I don't know if he has any credentials or tactical nous from previous captaincy experience.
    Something that makes me laugh, really, is the assumption that Pietersen being captain would make the side more aggressive. Good a batsman as he is, he can't change the skills of any the other players in the side. Nor do we know what if any captaincy credentials he has - he might be aggressive, he might also be 100% clueless and try to place mid-ons and end-up placing square-legs (exaggeration, but you know what I mean).

    And TBH, Pietersen doesn't strike me as "captaincy material". Having said that, of course, Hussain didn't strike many as such in 1996. And yet within a year he was vice-captain. The reality is that the only way to find-out would be to try, and that involves taking risks which you could potentially not take.

  10. #40
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Not really - ODIs are little different now to 1995 or 1997
    Oh yes, I distinctly remember all the artificially small boundaries and other rules all in favour of the batsmen back in the mid-90s.

    Hmm, wait a minute, they weren't a feature then, and run rates were all a lot lower.

  11. #41
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Run-rates were not a lot lower - there were many instances of 100 being scored in the first 15, bats were far better than they had been 10 years previously (and even 5), and ropes were no further in than in, say, 2003.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I doubt Pietersen being captain would have made the slightest mark on any of those, TBH.
    Agree, it's unlikely that he would have been able to influence such a major decision by the selectors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Something that makes me laugh, really, is the assumption that Pietersen being captain would make the side more aggressive. Good a batsman as he is, he can't change the skills of any the other players in the side. Nor do we know what if any captaincy credentials he has - he might be aggressive, he might also be 100% clueless and try to place mid-ons and end-up placing square-legs (exaggeration, but you know what I mean).

    And TBH, Pietersen doesn't strike me as "captaincy material". Having said that, of course, Hussain didn't strike many as such in 1996. And yet within a year he was vice-captain. The reality is that the only way to find-out would be to try, and that involves taking risks which you could potentially not take.
    Of course he can't change the skills of the other players, but he can develop a much more aggressive attitude towards the cricket and opposition. You can see that Pietersen thrives against the best and this kind of attitude, if instilled into the other players, would make England a far better ODI team. He may not have the tactical nous to suceeed, that's why I mentioned it in one of my previous posts if memory serves. However, potentially if he did develop this sort of tactical ability then I could see him being quite a good captain, time will tell though.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perm View Post
    Agree, it's unlikely that he would have been able to influence such a major decision by the selectors.



    Of course he can't change the skills of the other players, but he can develop a much more aggressive attitude towards the cricket and opposition. You can see that Pietersen thrives against the best and this kind of attitude, if instilled into the other players, would make England a far better ODI team. He may not have the tactical nous to suceeed, that's why I mentioned it in one of my previous posts if memory serves. However, potentially if he did develop this sort of tactical ability then I could see him being quite a good captain, time will tell though.
    Would Kevin Pietersen being captain make Ed Joyce score quicker? No

    Did Micheal Vaughan as captain make Kevin Pietersen bat slower? No

    The effect a captain has on a team is over rated, KP giving a team talk isn't going to make our players "More agressive" whatever that really means.

  14. #44
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Yeah, Bowman sums-up my feelings quite well.

    Honestly don't see Pietersen having the captaincy making us better. That doesn't mean it wouldn't - but if someone appointed him and it worked, they'd just have picked lucky IMO.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by open365 View Post
    Would Kevin Pietersen being captain make Ed Joyce score quicker? No

    Did Micheal Vaughan as captain make Kevin Pietersen bat slower? No

    The effect a captain has on a team is over rated, KP giving a team talk isn't going to make our players "More agressive" whatever that really means.
    I was referring to general attitude on players, not in specific cases. Obviously he won't have that big of an impact on every single player, but with an aggressive personality and obvious leadership skills he can raise the spirits of a side IMO. He has certainly had an effect on Ian Bell in ODI cricket, especially Bell's decision to walk down the wicket to fast bowlers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Yeah, Bowman sums-up my feelings quite well.

    Honestly don't see Pietersen having the captaincy making us better. That doesn't mean it wouldn't - but if someone appointed him and it worked, they'd just have picked lucky IMO.
    Disagree entirely, I think it's quite obvious that Pietersen has leadership potential. You can tell from the way he acts and the respect that his team-mates have for him.

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