Young English Players

Rik · 13-11-2002, 11:31 AM

Everyone is going on about Australia's young players so I think its about time everyone heard of the less known young talent England have at their disposal. And not a mention of Rob Key, Simon Jones, Steve Harmison, Richard Dawson or Jamie Foster

Ian Bell (Warwickshire) - Showed what he could do in his 1st season but had one of "those" seasons but will be back. A very impressive England U-19 and ECB Academy player, you can't doubt his class.

Owais Shah (Middlesex) - Has scored 1000+ runs for the last 2 seasons, averaged 41 2 years ago after a late slump but averaged nearer 50 this year...also did rather well on his debut against Australia when batting with Ben Hollioke in which they added 70 odd in 6-7 overs at the end of the innings.

Michael Powell (Glamorgan) - A very talented batsman who is starting to score consistantly again.

Vikram Solanki (Worcestershire) - A very wristy, stylish batsman who bowls useful Offspin and who like Powell is scoring consistantly again. Has played ODIs before but the longer version of the game is more suited to his game.

Kabir Ali (Worcestershire) - A fast improving bowling all-rounder with noteable bowling and batting performances to his name, has won several games with his bowling.

Jamie Troughton (Warwickshire) - Scored 1000+ runs in his 1st season and was allways agressive and willing to attack. Looks a fine prospect.

Jimmy Anderson (Lancashire) - 50+ wickets in his 1st full season and has speed to burn.

Andy Pratt (Durham) - A bit old to be called a "youngster" but one of the best wicket-keepers you'll ever see even if his batting isn't nearly as consistant"

Kyle Hogg (Lancashire) - Grandson of Sonny Ramadhin, he showed his class this year for both Lancashire and England U-19's although without specatular figures. Scored a Century for England U-19's against India in one of the OD games to show that he is more than just a bowler.

Andrew Strauss (Middlesex) - Impressive as both batsman and captain of Middlesex and led them into Division 1 of the County Championship.

David Nash (Middlesex) - Steady wicket-keeper and averaged over 40 this season in FC cricket.

Ed Joyce (Middlesex) - The Irish Left-Hander was a rock for Middlesex this year and although he will take a few years to Qualify for England he is only 24 and is committed to playing for England.

Rikki Clarke (Surrey) - More than surpassed himself in plugging the hole left by Ben Hollioke's tragic death although he looks much more of a batsman who bowls than an all-rounder.

Scott Newman (Surrey) - Impressive in his 3 games for Surrey this season averaging 61 whilst opening the innings and looking a very fine young player in a squad brimming with talent.

Rob White (Northamptonshire) - The young opener scored 277 on his FC debut and averaged 59 in 6 games to plug the hole left by Mike Hussey when he left to play for the Australia A team near the end of the season.

Chris Schofield (Lancashire) - Averaged 32.5 with the bat and 18 with the ball, how many young players can claim that? Showing a lot of talent with the bat for a player originally picked because of his bowling and scored a 50 in only his 2nd test.

Tim Ambrose and Matt Prior (Sussex) - Both impressed in their 1st full seasons and although Prior is the better keeper (reportedly one of the best in the country standing up to the seamers), Ambrose is the better bat and not far behind as a keeper.

Jamie Dalrymple (Middlesex) - Has impressed with the bat more than the ball lately but is considered a very fine young Off-spinner and his accuracy in OD games, in which he has a strike rate of 34.5, has helped win several games. In a squad containing Phil Tufnell he has suffered from a lack of oppertunities.

Mark Wallace (Glamorgan) - A very impressive young keeper who has also shown a lot of fight with the bat and played quite a few match-winning and match-saving innings. Has shown maturity past his years and has captained the ECB academy with Ian Bell as well as the England U-19 side in which he also shared the job with Bell.

Well there you go! Sorta makes that Aussie headline "Is there anyone in England who can play cricket?" seem a bit optimistic.

[Edited on 13/11/2002 by Rik]

Top_Cat · 13-11-2002, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Well there you go! Sorta makes that Aussie headline "Is there anyone in England who can play cricket?" seem a bit optimistic.

HOW?

Rik · 13-11-2002, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Top_Cat

Quote:

Well there you go! Sorta makes that Aussie headline "Is there anyone in England who can play cricket?" seem a bit optimistic.

HOW?

Because I've given you a list of players who definatly can play. And most are at least as good as the young Aussie players.

[Edited on 13/11/2002 by Rik]

The Argonaut · 13-11-2002, 03:40 PM

Why? Is it because they're doing all right in county cricket.

I agree with you that there is promise there but I wonder how many would get selected in the domestic Australian competition.

Also, as has been discussed before, a 1000+ run season or a 50+ wicket season is not sensational for county cricket, merely solid. This is unless they played only half a season.

Based on what I've read of county games last season, the better ones on your list are Clarke, Kabir Ali and Troughton. The others need to show more.

Rik · 13-11-2002, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Argonaut
Why? Is it because they're doing all right in county cricket.

I agree with you that there is promise there but I wonder how many would get selected in the domestic Australian competition.

Also, as has been discussed before, a 1000+ run season or a 50+ wicket season is not sensational for county cricket, merely solid. This is unless they played only half a season.

Based on what I've read of county games last season, the better ones on your list are Clarke, Kabir Ali and Troughton. The others need to show more.

Quite a few would, I mean look at Owais Shah and Solanki...both very very talented players. There is no problem with Talent in England, its just consistancy due to over-playing youngsters. Anderson might loose pace soon for example. But it helps that he's got speed to burn and the fact that he really has a "I'll give you one" attitude.

Top_Cat · 13-11-2002, 03:52 PM

A team-mate of mine played against Ian Bell in U/19 cricket a few years ago and he said that he'd play Test cricket.

Other than that, as The Argonaut said, 1000 runs or 50 wickets ain't that impressive at County level witht he amout of games they play. To score 1000 runs, you only need to average around 35-38.

Rik · 13-11-2002, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Top_Cat
A team-mate of mine played against Ian Bell in U/19 cricket a few years ago and he said that he'd play Test cricket.

Other than that, as The Argonaut said, 1000 runs or 50 wickets ain't that impressive at County level witht he amout of games they play. To score 1000 runs, you only need to average around 35-38.

Yes but just about all the speciallist batsmen here have scored more than 1000 runs at an average over 40. Bell will play Test Cricket and bringing him in next year in the Tests against Zimbabwe would be a good start. There's no doubt he's talented enough and he's gained some experiance in the last 2 seasons so now is the time to give him a go.

The Argonaut · 13-11-2002, 07:00 PM

I don't think anyone is doubting that the talent is there. My main worry is that the step between county and test cricket is pretty big. Until the quality of competition in county cricket improves the young guys won't be ready when the time comes.

Certainly the class players will make the transition without problems. It's the others that will struggle.

Rik · 13-11-2002, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Argonaut
I don't think anyone is doubting that the talent is there. My main worry is that the step between county and test cricket is pretty big. Until the quality of competition in county cricket improves the young guys won't be ready when the time comes.

Certainly the class players will make the transition without problems. It's the others that will struggle.

The class is there in some, like Bell and Solanki...but the county grind wears them down...Bell's 1st season he didn't play all the games and did well, this year he played all the games and got knackered and ended up with a stress fracture in the back...

jf2001 · 14-11-2002, 02:32 AM

A comprehensive list of quality young talent at England's disposal in the future. But somewhat shockingly omitting several Somerset players who are in with a shout.

Ian Blackwell - picked for Oz one day series after twatting the ball about in the ICC Trophy. Hits it bloody hard and a joy to watch, half-decent twirlers too. Pray he's given the chance as he could shine. Equally, hope he's not dumped forever if he doesn't shine against Australia.

Case in point, Mark Lathwell picked too early for England but then dropped after several Tests when he didn't score loads.

Second player is Matt Bulbeck. If fitness remains, an excellent prospect around the fringes of the Academy currently and big things expected in 2003. Regulation 50 wickets gained in 2002.

www.somersettalk.co.uk

chris.hinton · 14-11-2002, 05:04 AM

Kadder Ali - Good Attacking batsman who has scored a few century at Under 19 level, Found it hard to get into the Worcester first but in this only match scored a quick 50, a Fine Prospect for the future

Rik · 14-11-2002, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jf2001
A comprehensive list of quality young talent at England's disposal in the future. But somewhat shockingly omitting several Somerset players who are in with a shout.

Ian Blackwell - picked for Oz one day series after twatting the ball about in the ICC Trophy. Hits it bloody hard and a joy to watch, half-decent twirlers too. Pray he's given the chance as he could shine. Equally, hope he's not dumped forever if he doesn't shine against Australia.

Case in point, Mark Lathwell picked too early for England but then dropped after several Tests when he didn't score loads.

Second player is Matt Bulbeck. If fitness remains, an excellent prospect around the fringes of the Academy currently and big things expected in 2003. Regulation 50 wickets gained in 2002.

www.somersettalk.co.uk

Yeah but I missed out Blackwell as he is already in the selector's thoughts, while Owais Shah and Vikram Solanki keep getting messed around by the selectors. Also I have not mentioned Bulbeck as his 50 wickets cost 34 each and when I saw him on the TV he looked unable to open the bowling and only got his wickets near the end of the innings against the tail-enders...sorta like Agarkar really. Also I have not seen any proof he can bat.

Rik · 14-11-2002, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chris.hinton
Kadder Ali - Good Attacking batsman who has scored a few century at Under 19 level, Found it hard to get into the Worcester first but in this only match scored a quick 50, a Fine Prospect for the future

Kadeer? Hmmm yes I've missed him out as there is no concrete proof that he is ready, he has not bowled much when it was said his Leg-Spin was useful, and his career batting average hovered around 7 for a few years...I need more proof he can play. If I had gone on your basis then I would have picked Gary Pratt (Durham) and Gordon Muchall (Durham) who impressed in England U-19's but struggled quite a bit in the CC.

Bazza · 14-11-2002, 08:43 AM

You've mentioned alot of talented youngsters who've been getting praise all season. I don't want to get too excited though as many of these players have just had one good season. OK to play that well in your early 20s is good, but as the likes of Bell and Kirby proved from last season, 90% of the youngsters who burst onto the scene often struggle for 2-3 years afterwards, failing to maintain the consistency required to play international cricket. If these players can build on a good debut season (and nothing more at this stage) then they should certainyl be considered. Personally I don't want to see Bell play for England for at least another year. Look what happened to Nicky Peng, he's another recent example.

thethirdumpire · 14-11-2002, 02:43 PM

I watch Northants regulatry and rob white is gonna be a very good playe but he is still very young

13-11-2002, 11:31 AM	#1 (permalink)
Rik Cricketer Of The Year Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Shropshire, England Posts: 8,353	Young English Players Everyone is going on about Australia's young players so I think its about time everyone heard of the less known young talent England have at their disposal. And not a mention of Rob Key, Simon Jones, Steve Harmison, Richard Dawson or Jamie Foster Ian Bell (Warwickshire) - Showed what he could do in his 1st season but had one of "those" seasons but will be back. A very impressive England U-19 and ECB Academy player, you can't doubt his class. Owais Shah (Middlesex) - Has scored 1000+ runs for the last 2 seasons, averaged 41 2 years ago after a late slump but averaged nearer 50 this year...also did rather well on his debut against Australia when batting with Ben Hollioke in which they added 70 odd in 6-7 overs at the end of the innings. Michael Powell (Glamorgan) - A very talented batsman who is starting to score consistantly again. Vikram Solanki (Worcestershire) - A very wristy, stylish batsman who bowls useful Offspin and who like Powell is scoring consistantly again. Has played ODIs before but the longer version of the game is more suited to his game. Kabir Ali (Worcestershire) - A fast improving bowling all-rounder with noteable bowling and batting performances to his name, has won several games with his bowling. Jamie Troughton (Warwickshire) - Scored 1000+ runs in his 1st season and was allways agressive and willing to attack. Looks a fine prospect. Jimmy Anderson (Lancashire) - 50+ wickets in his 1st full season and has speed to burn. Andy Pratt (Durham) - A bit old to be called a "youngster" but one of the best wicket-keepers you'll ever see even if his batting isn't nearly as consistant" Kyle Hogg (Lancashire) - Grandson of Sonny Ramadhin, he showed his class this year for both Lancashire and England U-19's although without specatular figures. Scored a Century for England U-19's against India in one of the OD games to show that he is more than just a bowler. Andrew Strauss (Middlesex) - Impressive as both batsman and captain of Middlesex and led them into Division 1 of the County Championship. David Nash (Middlesex) - Steady wicket-keeper and averaged over 40 this season in FC cricket. Ed Joyce (Middlesex) - The Irish Left-Hander was a rock for Middlesex this year and although he will take a few years to Qualify for England he is only 24 and is committed to playing for England. Rikki Clarke (Surrey) - More than surpassed himself in plugging the hole left by Ben Hollioke's tragic death although he looks much more of a batsman who bowls than an all-rounder. Scott Newman (Surrey) - Impressive in his 3 games for Surrey this season averaging 61 whilst opening the innings and looking a very fine young player in a squad brimming with talent. Rob White (Northamptonshire) - The young opener scored 277 on his FC debut and averaged 59 in 6 games to plug the hole left by Mike Hussey when he left to play for the Australia A team near the end of the season. Chris Schofield (Lancashire) - Averaged 32.5 with the bat and 18 with the ball, how many young players can claim that? Showing a lot of talent with the bat for a player originally picked because of his bowling and scored a 50 in only his 2nd test. Tim Ambrose and Matt Prior (Sussex) - Both impressed in their 1st full seasons and although Prior is the better keeper (reportedly one of the best in the country standing up to the seamers), Ambrose is the better bat and not far behind as a keeper. Jamie Dalrymple (Middlesex) - Has impressed with the bat more than the ball lately but is considered a very fine young Off-spinner and his accuracy in OD games, in which he has a strike rate of 34.5, has helped win several games. In a squad containing Phil Tufnell he has suffered from a lack of oppertunities. Mark Wallace (Glamorgan) - A very impressive young keeper who has also shown a lot of fight with the bat and played quite a few match-winning and match-saving innings. Has shown maturity past his years and has captained the ECB academy with Ian Bell as well as the England U-19 side in which he also shared the job with Bell. Well there you go! Sorta makes that Aussie headline "Is there anyone in England who can play cricket?" seem a bit optimistic. [Edited on 13/11/2002 by Rik] __________________ "Age is just a stupid number" 20...that's a rather big number :(:(:(

14-11-2002, 02:32 AM	#10 (permalink)
jf2001 Cricket Web Staff Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: a Posts: 200	Omissions A comprehensive list of quality young talent at England's disposal in the future. But somewhat shockingly omitting several Somerset players who are in with a shout. Ian Blackwell - picked for Oz one day series after twatting the ball about in the ICC Trophy. Hits it bloody hard and a joy to watch, half-decent twirlers too. Pray he's given the chance as he could shine. Equally, hope he's not dumped forever if he doesn't shine against Australia. Case in point, Mark Lathwell picked too early for England but then dropped after several Tests when he didn't score loads. Second player is Matt Bulbeck. If fitness remains, an excellent prospect around the fringes of the Academy currently and big things expected in 2003. Regulation 50 wickets gained in 2002. www.somersettalk.co.uk

14-11-2002, 08:43 AM	#14 (permalink)
Bazza International 12th Man Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hants, England Posts: 1,710	You've mentioned alot of talented youngsters who've been getting praise all season. I don't want to get too excited though as many of these players have just had one good season. OK to play that well in your early 20s is good, but as the likes of Bell and Kirby proved from last season, 90% of the youngsters who burst onto the scene often struggle for 2-3 years afterwards, failing to maintain the consistency required to play international cricket. If these players can build on a good debut season (and nothing more at this stage) then they should certainyl be considered. Personally I don't want to see Bell play for England for at least another year. Look what happened to Nicky Peng, he's another recent example. __________________ My house is burned down but I can see the sky.

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13-11-2002, 03:40 PM	#4 (permalink)
The Argonaut State Vice-Captain Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 1,351	Why? Is it because they're doing all right in county cricket. I agree with you that there is promise there but I wonder how many would get selected in the domestic Australian competition. Also, as has been discussed before, a 1000+ run season or a 50+ wicket season is not sensational for county cricket, merely solid. This is unless they played only half a season. Based on what I've read of county games last season, the better ones on your list are Clarke, Kabir Ali and Troughton. The others need to show more.

13-11-2002, 03:52 PM	#6 (permalink)
Top_Cat Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 21,197	A team-mate of mine played against Ian Bell in U/19 cricket a few years ago and he said that he'd play Test cricket. Other than that, as The Argonaut said, 1000 runs or 50 wickets ain't that impressive at County level witht he amout of games they play. To score 1000 runs, you only need to average around 35-38.

13-11-2002, 07:00 PM	#8 (permalink)
The Argonaut State Vice-Captain Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 1,351	I don't think anyone is doubting that the talent is there. My main worry is that the step between county and test cricket is pretty big. Until the quality of competition in county cricket improves the young guys won't be ready when the time comes. Certainly the class players will make the transition without problems. It's the others that will struggle.

14-11-2002, 05:04 AM	#11 (permalink)
chris.hinton International Regular Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 3,324	Kadder Ali - Good Attacking batsman who has scored a few century at Under 19 level, Found it hard to get into the Worcester first but in this only match scored a quick 50, a Fine Prospect for the future

14-11-2002, 02:43 PM	#15 (permalink)
thethirdumpire Cricket Spectator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11	I watch Northants regulatry and rob white is gonna be a very good playe but he is still very young

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