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England's ideal ODI squad
- Thread starter Salamuddin
- Start date
Mr Mxyzptlk
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Agreed. Sign in for Dev League cricket please.open365 said:
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Mr Mxyzptlk
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Get out of my courtroom.Anna said:I'd add good old Blackie to that list
tooextracool
International Coach
I'd like to see some creativity from the England management. Simply going in with their best test players or players who they think have a future in tests is never going to work. Knowing that English List A cricket is rubbish, id pick my players based on form rather than talent. My squad for the world cup would be something like this:
Joyce
Trescothick
Bell
Flintoff
Pietersen
Dalrymple
Read
Giles/Blackwell
Anderson
Lewis
Collingwood
Chapple
Harmison
Loye/Ramprakash/Afzaal
Really, the only certainities id have for my XI on any given day would be Pietersen and Flintoff while the rest i think should be picked based on their form. For example there would be absolutely no point in picking Tresco when hes in the worst form of his life, as he is right now. Similarly the idea of having collingwood as a regular player may seem absolutely idiotic given how poor hes been recently but if he were a replacement player who only played when he was scoring runs, either in warm ups or in domestic cricket, it would look a lot better.
I'd also like to see more flexibility when it comes to the batting order. The point of having Pietersen coming at 4 no matter what is ridiculous, because theres no point having him come in in the first 10 overs. id much rather have him come after flintoff in those situations. Meanwhile if there is a significant top order partnership then pietersen can obviously still bat at 4. Similarly i'd be interested in using players like Chris Read or Dalrymple as pinch hitters occasionally on a flat wicket just to try something different.
I dont think Cook is good enough to play ODI cricket just yet, he doesnt have many shots in his armoury and his whole game revolves around temperament and knowing where his off stump is, not to mention that he doesnt play aerial shots.
Joyce
Trescothick
Bell
Flintoff
Pietersen
Dalrymple
Read
Giles/Blackwell
Anderson
Lewis
Collingwood
Chapple
Harmison
Loye/Ramprakash/Afzaal
Really, the only certainities id have for my XI on any given day would be Pietersen and Flintoff while the rest i think should be picked based on their form. For example there would be absolutely no point in picking Tresco when hes in the worst form of his life, as he is right now. Similarly the idea of having collingwood as a regular player may seem absolutely idiotic given how poor hes been recently but if he were a replacement player who only played when he was scoring runs, either in warm ups or in domestic cricket, it would look a lot better.
I'd also like to see more flexibility when it comes to the batting order. The point of having Pietersen coming at 4 no matter what is ridiculous, because theres no point having him come in in the first 10 overs. id much rather have him come after flintoff in those situations. Meanwhile if there is a significant top order partnership then pietersen can obviously still bat at 4. Similarly i'd be interested in using players like Chris Read or Dalrymple as pinch hitters occasionally on a flat wicket just to try something different.
I dont think Cook is good enough to play ODI cricket just yet, he doesnt have many shots in his armoury and his whole game revolves around temperament and knowing where his off stump is, not to mention that he doesnt play aerial shots.
From what I've seen of England ODI and Pro40 cricket this season and earlier, I'd go:
Flintoff (c)
Pietersen
Trescothick
Strauss
Bell
Cook
Mascarenhas
Collingwood
Yardy
Dalrymple
Panesar
Kirtley
Harmison
Anderson
Read (k)
From this squad of fifteen, I'd normally play the three specialist seamers, with Flintoff and spin back-up from Dalrymple or Yardy. In good spinning conditions, just play Monty. He's not proven himself in the short format yet, but he's by far England's best spinner and he's a quick learner.
In Collingwood and Mascarenhas there's medium pace back-up if needed, and then there's room for four of these five: Pietersen, Trescothick, Cook, Strauss, Bell.
With Flintoff and Read in the team, you're guaranteed batting at a good SR down to 8, so no problems there.
Ideal XI?
Trescothick
Pietersen
Strauss
Bell
Collingwood
Flintoff
Dalrymple or Yardy
Read
Harmison
Anderson
Kirtley or Monty
You can thank me later, Dunc.
Flintoff (c)
Pietersen
Trescothick
Strauss
Bell
Cook
Mascarenhas
Collingwood
Yardy
Dalrymple
Panesar
Kirtley
Harmison
Anderson
Read (k)
From this squad of fifteen, I'd normally play the three specialist seamers, with Flintoff and spin back-up from Dalrymple or Yardy. In good spinning conditions, just play Monty. He's not proven himself in the short format yet, but he's by far England's best spinner and he's a quick learner.
In Collingwood and Mascarenhas there's medium pace back-up if needed, and then there's room for four of these five: Pietersen, Trescothick, Cook, Strauss, Bell.
With Flintoff and Read in the team, you're guaranteed batting at a good SR down to 8, so no problems there.
Ideal XI?
Trescothick
Pietersen
Strauss
Bell
Collingwood
Flintoff
Dalrymple or Yardy
Read
Harmison
Anderson
Kirtley or Monty
You can thank me later, Dunc.
Let's see:
two Indians: Panesar and Solanki
two Pakistani: Mahmood and Afzaal
one South African: Pietersen
one West Indian: Joyce (come on, Ireland is an island to the west of England)
four Australians: G Jones, Stuart Law, Murray Goodwin, Ian Harvey
As always, spot on, SJS
two Indians: Panesar and Solanki
two Pakistani: Mahmood and Afzaal
one South African: Pietersen
one West Indian: Joyce (come on, Ireland is an island to the west of England)
four Australians: G Jones, Stuart Law, Murray Goodwin, Ian Harvey
As always, spot on, SJS
Mr Mxyzptlk
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Last 11 ODI knocks:tooextracool said:
93, 36, 23*, 64 v India
10 v Ireland
0, 56, 33 v Sri Lanka
14, 35, 61 v Pakistan
Seems to me he's been one of England's best ODI batsmen lately. You may say he's one of the best of a bad bunch, and fair enough, but how is that poor form?
425 runs @ 42.50
3x50
aussie
Hall of Fame Member
My take on it
Well first i'm going to look at the possible world cup 15-man sqaud. For me it should be this:
Trescothick
Strauss
Bell
KP
Freddie
Collingwood
Dalrymple
Read
Harmison
Lewis
Anderson
Joyce
Yardy
Giles/Blackwell - depending on who performs better between now & the world cup
Jones/Chapple/Broad/Tremlett - depending on performances & fitness
Strauss over the past two games has surely made an effort to improve the way he plays at the top in ODI's & i've been impressed & if he continues with that & scores runs i don't have a problem with him opening with Trescothick.
In the middle-order Bell has made the #3 spot his own & i'd keep him there. KP/Freddie for me as TEC rightfully said can inter-change based on the position of the game, i.e if England lose early early wickets Freddie can go up to #4 & KP drop to #5, but if the top 3 & bat for 20 overs plus in KP can stay at #4.
Bowling attack Harmison/Freddie/Anderson are definites AFAIC, the next postion in the could go to another seamer who IMO should be Lewis because he can use the new ball & England can use him out with in the first 30 overs, since with his lack of pace as we say today won't be that effective at the end especially on those small grounds in the windies. Also I dont want to rule out the possibilty of Simon Jones if he can get fit since he would definately enhance to pace attack.
If not an extra fast bowler, then Giles or Blackwell could play & can work in tandem in the middle-overs with Dalrymple because i strongly believe slow bowlers will have a strong say during the world cup. Only problem England would have in the bowling is that other than Flintoff no other bowler is good enough to bowl at the death since in the past Harmison & Anderson have disappeared in the slog overs, but if Jones can get fit based on how he bowled in the 2005 Natwest series he would be a good option bowling there for sure.
All in all due to England great work ethic if they play well with this full-strenght sqaud even if their recent ODI form has been average i expect them to pose a real challenge at the world cup.
Well first i'm going to look at the possible world cup 15-man sqaud. For me it should be this:
Trescothick
Strauss
Bell
KP
Freddie
Collingwood
Dalrymple
Read
Harmison
Lewis
Anderson
Joyce
Yardy
Giles/Blackwell - depending on who performs better between now & the world cup
Jones/Chapple/Broad/Tremlett - depending on performances & fitness
Strauss over the past two games has surely made an effort to improve the way he plays at the top in ODI's & i've been impressed & if he continues with that & scores runs i don't have a problem with him opening with Trescothick.
In the middle-order Bell has made the #3 spot his own & i'd keep him there. KP/Freddie for me as TEC rightfully said can inter-change based on the position of the game, i.e if England lose early early wickets Freddie can go up to #4 & KP drop to #5, but if the top 3 & bat for 20 overs plus in KP can stay at #4.
Bowling attack Harmison/Freddie/Anderson are definites AFAIC, the next postion in the could go to another seamer who IMO should be Lewis because he can use the new ball & England can use him out with in the first 30 overs, since with his lack of pace as we say today won't be that effective at the end especially on those small grounds in the windies. Also I dont want to rule out the possibilty of Simon Jones if he can get fit since he would definately enhance to pace attack.
If not an extra fast bowler, then Giles or Blackwell could play & can work in tandem in the middle-overs with Dalrymple because i strongly believe slow bowlers will have a strong say during the world cup. Only problem England would have in the bowling is that other than Flintoff no other bowler is good enough to bowl at the death since in the past Harmison & Anderson have disappeared in the slog overs, but if Jones can get fit based on how he bowled in the 2005 Natwest series he would be a good option bowling there for sure.
All in all due to England great work ethic if they play well with this full-strenght sqaud even if their recent ODI form has been average i expect them to pose a real challenge at the world cup.
Panesar and Mahmood are both born in England, Geriant was born in Papua New Guinea (!) and Murray Goodwin is from Zimbabwe.Steulen said:Let's see:
two Indians: Panesar and Solanki
two Pakistani: Mahmood and Afzaal
one South African: Pietersen
one West Indian: Joyce (come on, Ireland is an island to the west of England)
four Australians: G Jones, Stuart Law, Murray Goodwin, Ian Harvey
As always, spot on, SJS
For a non-English born ODI XI, England could pick...SJS said:Flintoff
Plus two Indians, two Pakistanis, one South African, one West Indian and four Australians should be just fine
Prior+ (South Africa)
Joyce (Ireland)
Law* (Australia)
Pietersen (South Africa)
Shah (India)
Spearman (New Zealand)
Trott (South Africa)
Ervine (Zimbabwe)
Gibson (West Indies)
Brown (Scotland)
Caddick (New Zealand)
Strauss qualifies (born in South Africa), but obviously isn't good enough.
The attack is a man short and just a tad old, but they couldn't do much worse than the current side.
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
Steulen said:Let's see:
two Indians: Panesar and Solanki
two Pakistani: Mahmood and Afzaal
one South African: Pietersen
one West Indian: Joyce (come on, Ireland is an island to the west of England)
four Australians: G Jones, Stuart Law, Murray Goodwin, Ian Harvey
As always, spot on, SJS
That wasnt exactly what I had in mind but I suppose this is as good a side as England have anyway
I meant :-
Tendulkar
Gilchrist
Ponting
Lara
Hussey
Yuvraj
Flintoff
Afridi
Brett Lee
Asif Gul
Ntini
Gilchrist
Ponting
Lara
Hussey
Yuvraj
Flintoff
Afridi
Brett Lee
Asif Gul
Ntini
Mr Mxyzptlk
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I'd have Sarwan ahead of Lara in ODI cricket these days.SJS said:
That wasnt exactly what I had in mind but I suppose this is as good a side as England have anyway
I meant :-
Tendulkar
Gilchrist
Ponting
Lara
Hussey
Yuvraj
Flintoff
Afridi
Brett Lee
Asif Gul
Ntini
tooextracool
International Coach
i think these stats give a better indication actually:Mr Mxyzptlk said:
2004 Natwest Series 5 4 0 0 0 20 28 7.00 1 0
2004 NatWest Challenge 3 2 1 1 0 *79 83 83.00 3 0
2004 ICC Champions Trophy 4 4 2 1 0 *80 141 70.50 1 0
2004-2005 ZIM v ENG 4 3 0 0 0 7 13 4.33 5 0
2004-2005 SAF v ENG 7 5 0 0 0 40 87 17.40 3 0
2005 Natwest Series 7 5 2 1 1 *112 187 62.33 4 0
2005 NatWest Challenge 3 2 0 0 0 34 43 21.50 0 0
2005-2006 PAK v ENG 5 5 1 0 0 *34 115 28.75 5 0
2005-2006 IND v ENG 6 6 1 2 0 93 229 45.80 4 0
2005-2006 IRE v ENG 1 1 0 0 0 10 10 10.00 2 0
2006 ENG v SRL 3 3 0 1 0 56 89 29.67 1 0
2006 NatWest Series 4 3 0 1 0 61 110 36.67
in the last 2 years, hes had 4 good series, 2 of which were inflated by playing zimbabwe and bangladesh, and his stats in those series were dismal when you remove those games therefore those 2 series can be disregarded. the remaining 2 successful series have both been against india.
tooextracool
International Coach
owais shah was born in pakistan wasnt he?pskov said:
tooextracool
International Coach
the 2005 natwest series where he got smashed all over the park? Simon Jones has no limited overs experience, even if he is fit hes going to have to play 20-20 and list A cricket before he can make a case for selection.aussie said:
The issue about death bowling that you brought up is an interesting one though because even yesterday it was obvious that Lewis is clearly not a good enough death bowler. One wonders given the injuries how many times hes going to have his figures tarnished by being the only English bowler capable of bowling straight.
With regards to death bowling, Yardy seems to have a reputation for being good at the death, bowls a lot quicker than most spinners and varies his pace well, and Anderson has all the tools to be a good death bowler, assuming he comes back as the Anderson that we saw in Mumbai rather than the one that we've seen before.