First West Indies, then Australia....who next?

[silentstriker]

To win consistently all over the world, you need quality bowling. Without it, you are forever doomed. Right now, England most likely, if they stop getting injured, and if they get a better spin option than Giles (or Panesar develops even more). You need decent batting, but bowling is where the matches are won.

WI won because of their pace attack. Australia won because of all timers in McGrath and Warne (and some very good support on the other end as well).

 

[Tim]

India will have to sort out their political/board room problems as well as improving their player pathways or else all that talent will go to waste. England and Australia probably have the best structures in place, they just need the talent to come through.

 

[Turbinator]

India struggled to take 20 West Indian wickets earlier this year, and the England is a far superior team. Where exactly does this wonderful Indian bowling attack come from by next year?

Are you kidding me!?

1st test match we needed 10 wicket in the last day.........which is quite a tuff task (even thought it is the last day)..........but we still managed to get 9 and WI drew by a wicket! This match was affected by rain.

2nd test match it rained on the fourth day wen all we needed was 9 wickets in 2 days.......which then left us (India) with a target of 9 wickets on the last day and we still managed to get 6 .......so imagine wut wud happen if we got the fourth day to and had it not rained.

3rd test match we were chasing

4th test match we DID get 20 wickets.

 

[Turbinator]

there are two threads by the same name plz reply on the other one

 

[Turbinator]

there are two threads by the same name plz reply on the other one

Crap , i mean respond on the longer one

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Are you kidding me!?

1st test match we needed 10 wicket in the last day.........which is quite a tuff task (even thought it is the last day)..........but we still managed to get 9 and WI drew by a wicket! This match was affected by rain.

2nd test match it rained on the fourth day wen all we needed was 9 wickets in 2 days.......which then left us (India) with a target of 9 wickets on the last day and we still managed to get 6 .......so imagine wut wud happen if we got the fourth day to and had it not rained.

3rd test match we were chasing

4th test match we DID get 20 wickets.

Ah, but I watched the matches and the Indian attack certainly didn't look as potent as you'd like to believe.

Aside from one particular innings when Harbhajan cashed in on some deplorable batting, he was particularly disappointing. Sreesanth was largely ineffective. Munaf Patel was good in bursts and admittedly the most impressive seamer. Aside from them, Anil Kumble and Virender Sehwag were the dangermen. Are you honestly telling me that Patel/Sreesanth/Kumble/Harbhajan/Sehwag is a potent bowling attack? The West Indies attack is at least as potent then.

Regarding Pathan, he has a lot of work to do before he can be called potent again. And Vikram Singh? LOL.

England doesn't have a particularly strong bowling attack without Flintoff, but to suggest that India's bowling attack can even come close to comparing with the best in the world is a mockery of the sport.

So answer me this, where is this world class attack coming from? Names and justification please.

 

[silentstriker]

Ah, but I watched the matches and the Indian attack certainly didn't look as potent as you'd like to believe.

Aside from one particular innings when Harbhajan cashed in on some deplorable batting, he was particularly disappointing. Sreesanth was largely ineffective. Munaf Patel was good in bursts and admittedly the most impressive seamer. Aside from them, Anil Kumble and Virender Sehwag were the dangermen. Are you honestly telling me that Patel/Sreesanth/Kumble/Harbhajan/Sehwag is a potent bowling attack? The West Indies attack is at least as potent then.

Regarding Pathan, he has a lot of work to do before he can be called potent again. And Vikram Singh? LOL.

England doesn't have a particularly strong bowling attack without Flintoff, but to suggest that India's bowling attack can even come close to comparing with the best in the world is a mockery of the sport.

So answer me this, where is this world class attack coming from? Names and justification please.

India do not have a good bowling attack. They don't even have a mediocre bowling attack. They have the worst bowling attack of any major test playing nation. They are horrible. Absolutely horrible. West Indies are easily better. So are Pakistan, Australia, England, South Africa, New Zealand and Sri Lanka.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

India do not have a good bowlign attack. They don't even have a mediocre bowling attack. They have the worst bowling attack of any major test playing nation. They are horrible. Absolutely horrible.

Mildly ott.

 

[Turbinator]

India do not have a good bowlign attack. They don't even have a mediocre bowling attack. They have the worst bowling attack of any major test playing nation. They are horrible. Absolutely horrible. West Indies are easily better. So are Pakistan, Australia, England, South Africa, New Zealand and Sri Lanka.

I am sorry but i haf got to say ur analysis is horrible my friend.

Our pace attack is inexperience!!!!!!!! with the likes of nehra and balaji suffering injury.........zaheer was out of form (recently has notched up good performances in the county circuit)...............which leaves us with pathan, munaf, sreesanth, and ajit agarkar...........ajit agarkar a simply brilliant economic bowler........pathan inexperienced and out of form prolly the first slump of his international career.......munaf and sreesanth incrediblly inexperienced.........but look at these 4 bowlers and to say that they do not haf potential is completely absurd..............u give munaf and sreesanth soem time theyll start bowling as fast as lee, bond, and akhtar............pathan will regain his swing........ajit agarkar's experience and economic bowling will become the spine of our pace attack!!!!!

And u say we haf the worst pace attack. You are criticizing the pathan that was labbeled the next sultan of swing, just becuz of a few bad performances. Sreesanth and Munaf both haf been commented to reach the 90 mph mark, infact munaf will go over, these two are raw u need to give them some time. And this is the same sreesanth who got rid of Lara in the 4th test when he had looked to settle in. Had sreesanth not got rid of him the test match would haf been a win for the windies.

BTW, put Mahmmood who gets clobbered in his own home grounds into the west indies, a country where its extremely difficult to play in, and watch his balls get murdered. Same with Harmison and all other England bowlers.

 

[silentstriker]

I am sorry but i haf got to say ur analysis is horrible my friend.

Our pace attack is inexperience!!!!!!!!

Being horrible via inexperience is horrible nonetheless.

with the likes of nehra and balaji suffering injury.........zaheer was out of form (recently has notched up good performances in the county circuit)...............which leaves us with pathan, munaf, sreesanth, and ajit agarkar...........ajit agarkar a simply brilliant economic bowler........pathan inexperienced and out of form prolly the first slump of his international career.......munaf and sreesanth incrediblly inexperienced.........but look at these 4 bowlers and to say that they do not haf potential is completely absurd..

Sure, they have the potential to become average bowlers. Right now, they are not.

And u say we haf the worst pace attack. You are criticizing the pathan that was labbeled the next sultan of swing, just becuz of a few bad performances.

The key word being the next. It never materialized, or hasn't yet.

Sreesanth and Munaf both haf been commented to reach the 90 mph mark, infact munaf will go over, these two are raw u need to give them some time.

Yes, when that happens, they might be good. It hasn't happened yet, so thus far they are crap.

And this is the same sreesanth who got rid of Lara in the 4th test when he had looked to settle in. Had sreesanth not got rid of him the test match would haf been a win for the windies.

Wow, our pace bowlers got a wicket! This might come as a suprise to you, if you've only been watching India, but in other countries frontline fast bowlers are actually expected to take wickets. And its actually routine that they do so.

 

[Turbinator]

THat wasnt just any wicket.........an inexperienced bowler getting a crucial breakthru wicket in a pressure situation that to of a great batsmen liek lara in conditions which he is alien to is yes quite an achievement ........in fact it was the turning point of the game..................................and no inexperienced does not mean crap.........that is quite an absurd statement!

 

[adharcric]

India do not have a good bowling attack. They don't even have a mediocre bowling attack. They have the worst bowling attack of any major test playing nation. They are horrible. Absolutely horrible. West Indies are easily better. So are Pakistan, Australia, England, South Africa, New Zealand and Sri Lanka.

The Indian bowling attack isn't good but it certainly isn't as bad as you make it seem. Kumble is world-class and I know you agree with that one. Harbhajan and Powar are two other spinners who are at least "good". Pathan showed potential but he's far too inconsistent in tests to be considered anything better than average. As for Munaf and Sreesanth, if you think they can become "average" bowlers at best you are absolutely mistaken. Munaf has already hit 90 mph against England and has been impressive thus far with the main flaw being his stamina, which should improve with training. As far as I'm concerned, Sreesanth looks more like an Australian bowler than an Indian one, simply because of his seam, swing and ferocity. I don't know if you've been impressed by him, but I've seen some non-Indian posters on here impressed by him (and his potential) and trust me, that means something. So far, so good ... give them time before you give them a boom or bust label. Finally, VRV showed good natural bounce and control but he clearly isn't polished enough for international cricket. He hasn't been given an extended run yet either so it's all good. Let's keep Agarkar, Nehra, Zaheer, Balaji etc out of these talks.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

Why is it that most of the nutters on CW seem to hail from North America?

 

[Slats4ever]

Are you kidding me!?

1st test match we needed 10 wicket in the last day.........which is quite a tuff task (even thought it is the last day)..........but we still managed to get 9 and WI drew by a wicket! This match was affected by rain.

2nd test match it rained on the fourth day wen all we needed was 9 wickets in 2 days.......which then left us (India) with a target of 9 wickets on the last day and we still managed to get 6 .......so imagine wut wud happen if we got the fourth day to and had it not rained.

3rd test match we were chasing

4th test match we DID get 20 wickets.

1st test match. 10 wickets on the last day = not hard... the wicket was deteriorated to the max and it was a very brittle west indian batting line up without a tail.

2nd test match. come on it's west indies and you can't take 6 wickets on a 5th day wicket.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Is this fine Australian structure actually producing any bowlers of high quality though? Because they seem to be rather conspicuously absent.

It's served them well for nearly 20 years, of course there will be times when there is the occasional shortage in one area.

There is not the slightest chance of India being dominant outside of the sub-continent.

 

[silentstriker]

The Indian bowling attack isn't good but it certainly isn't as bad as you make it seem. Kumble is world-class and I know you agree with that one. Harbhajan and Powar are two other spinners who are at least "good". Pathan showed potential but he's far too inconsistent in tests to be considered anything better than average. As for Munaf and Sreesanth, if you think they can become "average" bowlers at best you are absolutely mistaken. Munaf has already hit 90 mph against England and has been impressive thus far with the main flaw being his stamina, which should improve with training. As far as I'm concerned, Sreesanth looks more like an Australian bowler than an Indian one, simply because of his seam, swing and ferocity. I don't know if you've been impressed by him, but I've seen some non-Indian posters on here impressed by him (and his potential) and trust me, that means something. So far, so good ... give them time before you give them a boom or bust label. Finally, VRV showed good natural bounce and control but he clearly isn't polished enough for international cricket. He hasn't been given an extended run yet either so it's all good. Let's keep Agarkar, Nehra, Zaheer, Balaji etc out of these talks.

I never said they were busts. I said, right now, they aren't very good. You say they aren't average? OK, average means middle of the pack. Here are all the test playing nations (major ones): Australia, England, South Africa, New Zealand, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, India, West Indies.

For Indian bowlers to be 'average', they'd have to be #4 or #5 in the world. I want you to rank peoples' pace attacks and I dare you to find four or five of those countries with WORSE pace attacks than India.

You say, they "will" improve. I have no problem with that, but they aren't there yet, and on present ability they suck. We have the worst (maybe 2nd worst if you are generous) pace attack in the world. Admit it, it sucks.

 

[silentstriker]

It's served them well for nearly 20 years, of course there will be times when there is the occasional shortage in one area.

There is not the slightest chance of India being dominant outside of the sub-continent.

Agreed. They need quality fast bowling, and then maybe it is possible.

 

[GIMH]

PLZZZZZZZZZ dont include England in this...........England IMO are HIGHLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY overrated. India and pakistan both can regularly i believe take 20 english wickets even IN England. South africa is not such a great test team btw. And australia well, remember the 2003/2004 tests series between India and Australia in Australia. I agree that was a one time thing but hey wut can u say its Australia we're talkign bout. But all in all England and South africa in no means are better test playing nations then India and Pak.

One series defeat in close to three years, and only two draws as well in that time, suggests we aren't overrated. Results speak, we did beat Australia, which nobody else has done in the last few years. As for South Africa not being a great test team, well you may be right, but when a team other than Australia or England goes there and wins, then you can dismiss it as child's play, but until then, to suggest we are overrated is just nonsensical flaming, and I don't know why I have even bothered responding.

 

[Turbinator]

1st test match. 10 wickets on the last day = not hard... the wicket was deteriorated to the max and it was a very brittle west indian batting line up without a tail.

2nd test match. come on it's west indies and you can't take 6 wickets on a 5th day wicket.

no we had to get 9.............we GOT 6

 

[Run like Inzy]

Its quite clear that we are in a transitional period but in my opinion there won't really be a number one team for atleast 4-5 years after Australia start losing their grip. When the West Indies went into decline in the early 90's it was not until 1999 when Australia won the world cup (although we saw glimpses of dominance after the loss to Sri Lanka in 1996) that we saw a team which in subsequent years became almost invincible.
I think the team which wins the 2011 World Cup will probably be the team that dominates for the next decade. Looking at current contenders I would have to say Sri Lanka and Pakistan look very strong when fully fit. If both can become more consistent surely they can challenge for the no.1 spot. As for England although they have shown they can play Test cricket with the best there is another format of the game! In order to be a truly dominating team they must show some results in ODIs and the series against Pakistan is where it has to start