Do England have a problem with finishing games off?

[Richard]

I was referring to a World-Class Test Side.

Well, Jones is considerably better at the limitless-over game than the limited-overs format.

 

[Richard]

I think his problem is that he averages 17.75 in ODI's and only has one score greater than 37 in 27 innings

I'm willing to bet he'd have been dropped by now but for the ludicrousy of those games against Zimbabwe being classed "ODIs".

 

[Richard]

The problem is with Jones is that he only has to score one average knock a series and his place is secured because everyone thinks Chris Read is worse than a tail ender.

Which is very far from true in the one-day game - Read has been able to play in the one-dayers even as far back as 1999\2000 - certainly did in 2003 and 2003\04.

 

[tooextracool]

Regarding Geraint Jones, I personally think he has a lot talent as a batsman, and will be a very useful Test batsman as soon as he straightens out his defensive technique a little and starts playing with a little more confidence. He does need to learn how to bat in ODIs, though - he's in danger of losing his place.

theres nothing wrong with his defensive technique, the problem is that he doesnt use it that much. he instead chooses to sweep spinners when he cant execute the stroke and pull pace bowlers within the first 6 balls that hes at the crease.

 

[tooextracool]

Really, how on Earth are McCullum or Ramdin so definitively better?

because the above 2 actually use their brain(well more often than not at least)?
and anyone who doesnt think that mccullum>>>>>>>>>rubbish>>>>>>Jones in test cricket is seriously deluding himself

 

[Richard]

Err, where did I say otherwise?
McCullum has had a very good start to his Test-career.

 

[Richard]

because the above 2 actually use their brain(well more often than not at least)?

And with Ramdin that use of the brain hasn't actually translated (yet - it may do in the future) into especially outstanding results.

 

[tooextracool]

And with Ramdin that use of the brain hasn't actually translated (yet - it may do in the future) into especially outstanding results.

which is still better than g.jones has managed.

 

[tooextracool]

Err, where did I say otherwise?
McCullum has had a very good start to his Test-career.

probably when you said this "I was actually meaning in Tests, but while McCullum might be a better ODI batsman than Jones I still don't think he's anything remotely special.
22 plays 17 - there's not that much in it IMO."

 

[Richard]

which is still better than g.jones has managed.

It is? Ramdin has so far done little - Jones has (admittedly in more innings) played several good knocks, and also received more than his fair share of excellent deliveries. The brainless strokes tend to mask that fact, but it's undeniably there.

 

[Richard]

probably when you said this "I was actually meaning in Tests, but while McCullum might be a better ODI batsman than Jones I still don't think he's anything remotely special.
22 plays 17 - there's not that much in it IMO."

And so far McCullum, while he's done well in Tests, cannot be called definitively better than Jones.

 

[tooextracool]

It is? Ramdin has so far done little - Jones has (admittedly in more innings) played several good knocks, and also received more than his fair share of excellent deliveries. The brainless strokes tend to mask that fact, but it's undeniably there.

everyone gets good deliveries, geraint has unfortunately played like an idiot when he hasnt got good delvieries bowled at him.

 

[tooextracool]

And so far McCullum, while he's done well in Tests, cannot be called definitively better than Jones.

why on earth not? bar Australia, Mcculum has averages in the mid 30s against every other test class team, Geraint has averages in the 20s against everyone except Nz. Further if you look at Geraint's performances since and including the series against WI(considering that his first 4 tests were more likely to be a fluke period given what came after) in 2004 he averages 24.5(http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype) while Mccullum when you get rid of performances against substandard opposition averages nearly 34(http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype)

 

[Richard]

everyone gets good deliveries, geraint has unfortunately played like an idiot when he hasnt got good delvieries bowled at him.

Not too many people get as many as Geraint got in 2005. As I said - the brainless strokes make it harder to forgive him for the dismissals which he had no real chance of avoiding.

 

[Richard]

why on earth not? bar Australia, Mcculum has averages in the mid 30s against every other test class team, Geraint has averages in the 20s against everyone except Nz. Further if you look at Geraint's performances since and including the series against WI(considering that his first 4 tests were more likely to be a fluke period given what came after) in 2004 he averages 24.5(http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype) while Mccullum when you get rid of performances against substandard opposition averages nearly 34(http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype)

OK, fine, McCullum has thus far been better than Jones. I'm not one for "if you get rid of Australia", any more than I am for "if you include Ban and Zim" but I actually didn't realise McCullum had done quite as well as he has.
Err, and actually, he averages 28.56 against up-to-standard opposition.

 

[Boofra]

Hmmm, im afraid this thread deserves to be brought back up.

England struggling again to finish a team off. Very frustrating indeed.

Learn to catch, fellas!!!!

 

[andyc]

Hmmm, im afraid this thread deserves to be brought back up.

England struggling again to finish a team off. Very frustrating indeed.

Learn to catch, fellas!!!!

And then Flintoff gets a wicket, and they're seven down. Well said

 

[Boofra]

And then Flintoff gets a wicket, and they're seven down. Well said

Yep. I'd like to think my comments were the inspiration behind that wicket.

Anything to help get the lads home!

England are usless..Can't finish a game off to save their lives...just cant take wickets...(cue for another wicket)

 

[haroon510]

u r soo right. england has been like this for a while now. about jones like some one said here. if u see other team's wicket keepers like dohni, gilgrist, akmal, singakara and others they are match winer batsman. we havn't seen any match wining inngs like any of these batsman from jones. they problebly need to give some one else a chance instead of jones. someone who can bat as good as wicket keeping.

 

[Top_Cat]

I must say, I think there's definitely something wrong when the two opening bowlers (one of them captain and batting top 6) bowl 97 of almost 200 overs and the one spinner bowls only 27 (and it wasn't as it he was being pumelled). England have a very good pace bowling list, most of whom can bowl 145+km/h so is their thinking a bit 'pace-heavy' at the moment? I mean for Flintoff to bowl 51 overs in the second innings is just silly. He's the captain so should have been a bit more aware of his support cast and the physical effect on him. Additionally, Flintoff has been a world-class bowler when he's been bowling 145km/h+; if he has to kick back to being a stock seam bowler, I'm afraid he's far less effective and England will (and did) suffer for it.