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Thread: Tardy over rates in the Ashes

  1. #76
    World Traveller Craig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    Whether he chucks or not cannot be determined from the naked eye.
    But what is plain for everyone to see, is that his action is just as 'questionable' as a certain long haired Asian speed supremo with 'hyperextension'.
    And mate, blacks have always been the unfair targets in a euro-centric world for the last 400-500 years. You would have to convince me that a certain thing is exception to this rule than otherwise.
    Don't give me any of that.

    So if S-hoaib is a chucker then so is Lee?
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  2. #77
    Banned Shounak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig
    Don't give me any of that.

    So if S-hoaib is a chucker then so is Lee?
    Depends on the objective measurements, in terms of degrees of flexion.

    ICC should just lay down an objective rule. But not something like 15 for everyone. I much prefer the previous rule (or is the current one) where the type of bowler has certain limits of flexion.

  3. #78
    Banned Shounak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    Murali's flexion for his standard offspinner is UNDER McGrath's flexion.
    I would never, ever has guessed this. Where'd you get the data from?

  4. #79
    International Captain Slow Love™'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shounak
    I would never, ever has guessed this. Where'd you get the data from?
    By drawing a long bow, I'm guessing.

    I'm not sure whether it has a real basis. The only info on this that I remember is that McGrath confessed to having been tested at around 12 degrees flexion at some stage. As far as we know, Murali was recently lab tested at around 10 degrees for the doosra (after remedial work). I'm not sure whether McGrath was talking about rare deliveries (or "effort balls") on his part, or on average or what - I don't think he ever got that specific.

    If C_C has detailed info on this though, I wouldn't mind hearing it either. I'm certainly not motivated to go after Murali or anything, I'd just be fascinated, 'cause the info so far on all this has been very limited.
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  5. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by shounak
    I would never, ever has guessed this. Where'd you get the data from?
    That's what I've been wanting to know... you can get any figures (10 degrees, 20 degrees etc.) you like if you get them from the media.
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  6. #81
    Hall of Fame Member social's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    INCORRECT.
    Murali flexes more than McGrath ONLY for his doosra, which is still under various fast bowler's 'effort balls'.
    Murali's flexion for his standard offspinner is UNDER McGrath's flexion.
    Murali's doosra was the ball that was banned. Itwas recorded at 14 degrees

    ICC then sets limit at 15 degrees.

    An anomaly in your Euro-centric bias theory, just a happy coincidence for Murali or something more sinister?

  7. #82
    International Vice-Captain Dasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by social
    Murali's doosra was the ball that was banned. Itwas recorded at 14 degrees

    ICC then sets limit at 15 degrees.

    An anomaly in your Euro-centric bias theory, just a happy coincidence for Murali or something more sinister?
    It's all a terrible conspiracy to keep the white man down!!!!

  8. #83
    International Vice-Captain Dasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shounak
    Depends on the objective measurements, in terms of degrees of flexion.

    ICC should just lay down an objective rule. But not something like 15 for everyone. I much prefer the previous rule (or is the current one) where the type of bowler has certain limits of flexion.
    It made no practical sense to have different limits for different types of bowlers - it was simply unfair. Fast bowlers don't always have the quickest arm-speeds, bowlers like Murali, Warne et al have very quick arm speeds - how do you differentiate between them and say... a McGrath?
    It only makes sense to have the current rule - the biomechanists have determined that upto 15 degrees is where flexion and such is inadvertent and the ICC have made rules to make it fair for ALL bowlers. This is one thing where the ICC have got it absolutely right - the old ideals were inherently unfair and relied on the fallibility of the human eye.

  9. #84
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend honestbharani's Avatar
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    I got my info from newspapers. McGrath and Gillespie were supposed to flex it upto 12 and 11 degrees, but I am not sure who flexed it 11 degrees and who flexed it 12. Murali's doosra earlier was reported to be 14 degree flexed. So I said the bit about 3 degrees. Anyways, I definitely think the new rule is better. It is all in black and white now, instead of the huge grey areas that remained earlier.
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  10. #85
    C_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by social
    Murali's doosra was the ball that was banned. Itwas recorded at 14 degrees

    ICC then sets limit at 15 degrees.

    An anomaly in your Euro-centric bias theory, just a happy coincidence for Murali or something more sinister?
    Incorrect.
    Murali's doosra was recorded between 13 and 14 degrees.
    So were the effort balls of McGrath and Akhtar.
    The 15 degree rule was set because most bowlers flex around that limit when bowling their effort balls.
    And the 'eurocentric bias' is not a theory, it is categoric fact in the history of cricket.

  11. #86
    C_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig
    Don't give me any of that.

    So if S-hoaib is a chucker then so is Lee?
    Not necessarily.
    But if Shoaib's action is checked out, while it is no less suspect than Lee's, it speaks of protectionism of Lee. Nothing else.
    For Lee was never made to go through biomechanical tests, despite murmurs about his action.


    I would never, ever has guessed this. Where'd you get the data from?
    The data is available through the UWA website.

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