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Thread: "The almighty Flintoff" and "the below test standard Lee"

  1. #16
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinzan12
    Haven't heard much from the likes of Marc and TEC on Flintoff and Lee's performance so far, I'm interested to read their reactions
    im not sure what in the hell you're trying to prove here. ive given my reaction on both flintoff and lees performances this series, and i even said during the ODIs that b.lee should be part of the test squad, because if he bowled as well as he did in the ODIs hed make a fine test bowler.
    but how does this change the fact that lee wasnt good enough in his previous stint of test match cricket?
    and as far as flintoff is concerned, i never ever hyped him up as anything, in fact ive always said that hes still relatively unproven with the bat. and i dont think 1 test against australia suggests that hes not good enough. as far as bowling is concnered, you'd have to be completely out of your mind, if you thought he wasnt good enough.
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  2. #17
    International Coach social's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool
    im not sure what in the hell you're trying to prove here. ive given my reaction on both flintoff and lees performances this series, and i even said during the ODIs that b.lee should be part of the test squad, because if he bowled as well as he did in the ODIs hed make a fine test bowler.
    but how does this change the fact that lee wasnt good enough in his previous stint of test match cricket?
    and as far as flintoff is concerned, i never ever hyped him up as anything, in fact ive always said that hes still relatively unproven with the bat. and i dont think 1 test against australia suggests that hes not good enough. as far as bowling is concnered, you'd have to be completely out of your mind, if you thought he wasnt good enough.
    TEC and I agree again - will wonders ever cease?

    As for Lee, you wont find a bigger supporter of his reinstatement than me. However, as with Flintoff, let's wait until the end of the series before we pass judgement.

  3. #18
    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool
    im not sure what in the hell you're trying to prove here. .
    How could this forum be any fun if you can't give someone a friendly reminder that they were wrong on a particular issue.

    In the Australian and NZ summer Lee was outstanding in the onedayers and no matter what was written on this forum from us downunder, you always maintained he wouldn't translate that form into test cricket.....so just a gentle reminder on my part.

    As far as Flintoff's concerned I've always maintained he's a good test cricketer just a little overated and overhyped. Thats all

  4. #19
    You'll Never Walk Alone Nate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool
    im not sure what in the hell you're trying to prove here. ive given my reaction on both flintoff and lees performances this series, and i even said during the ODIs that b.lee should be part of the test squad, because if he bowled as well as he did in the ODIs hed make a fine test bowler.
    but how does this change the fact that lee wasnt good enough in his previous stint of test match cricket?
    and as far as flintoff is concerned, i never ever hyped him up as anything, in fact ive always said that hes still relatively unproven with the bat. and i dont think 1 test against australia suggests that hes not good enough. as far as bowling is concnered, you'd have to be completely out of your mind, if you thought he wasnt good enough.
    Good to see you`ve changed your mind on Lee somewhat TEC.
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  5. #20
    International Vice-Captain Dasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinzan12
    In the Australian and NZ summer Lee was outstanding in the onedayers and no matter what was written on this forum from us downunder, you always maintained he wouldn't translate that form into test cricket.....so just a gentle reminder on my part.
    TEC and others (including I) have maintained that in the past Lee has show outstanding form in ODIs only to fall flat in Tests when given the chance. So far, it looks like he's changed this trend and is actually bowling well in Tests as well.

  6. #21
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyeddie
    After all, the whole of Australia (and Richard) wrote Steve Wayward-Harmison off after a single over in Australia last time
    I've never, ever taken that over into anything with my rating of Harmison, as it was an utterly meaningless 12-a-side pipe-opener game.
    So please, if you're going to tell of how I "wrote-off" someone (when all I have actually done is said Harmison is massively overrated and currently isn't Test-class) at least tell it correctly.
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  7. #22
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad
    Yes indeed. He was way too indisciplined in that regard, and I'm surprised fewer England fans have brought it up, given the bashing Lee usually gets over it. Even when he wasn't bowling no balls, he was really pushing it a lot of the time. Given that his run up isn't as rapid as someone like Lee or Akthar, there's really no excuse for it, and one day he's going to take a vital wicket with one and get called.
    Well he's already taken one with one that wasn't called, so yes.

  8. #23
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratyush
    Its laughable regarding the comments on Lee on the forum by so many people. Do not rule out a new justification for what they said, meant or did not say
    What's far, far more laughable is that this single Test, on this malevolant pitch, proves us all wrong that Lee wasn't Test-class.
    Wait until we get a better batting pitch, that's what I say - and it almost certainly will happen. Even this pitch was an accident.

  9. #24
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dasa
    TEC and others (including I) have maintained that in the past Lee has show outstanding form in ODIs only to fall flat in Tests when given the chance. So far, it looks like he's changed this trend and is actually bowling well in Tests as well.
    It looks to me like he's had a single Test on a good bowling pitch.

  10. #25
    International Debutant Pedro Delgado's Avatar
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    Well I'll freely admit that Lee proved me wrong, I'm not ashamed to say.
    Fred got a real grubber, and hopefully won't keep getting 'em in future. No shame in getting out to Warne either. He'll be back, will Sir Frederick of Flintoff.
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  11. #26
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    He'll be back, certainly... but I still think he'll do well to average 25 this series, and play even 1 significant innings.

  12. #27
    International Debutant Pedro Delgado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    He'll be back, certainly... but I still think he'll do well to average 25 this series, and play even 1 significant innings.
    Possibly correct. I'd venture that that says more for the quality of the opposition, rather than his talent per se.

  13. #28
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    It says something about both, fairly obviously - he's talented enough to bash rubbish bowling like New Zealand and West Indies to devastating effect, but not talented enough to have more than 1 good Test against a no-more-than-reasonable South African attack (ironically his best game was against their best attack of the series) and probably none at all against a good Australian one.

  14. #29
    International Regular twctopcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    He'll be back, certainly... but I still think he'll do well to average 25 this series, and play even 1 significant innings.
    I'd hasten to agree unfortunately, Botham he will never be. A lot of the problems that i seem to see with the english batsmen is they are far too mechanical in their approach which plays right into the aussie bowlers hands. If they tried to play a bit more naturally like KP and hit the damn thing they wouldn't be so easy to get out.
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  15. #30
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Well, to an extent, yes.
    I think the biggest reason Pietersen succeeded at Lord's where all others failed is that his technique - suspect in some respects - was actually as close to perfectly suited to that sort of malevolent pitch as it comes.
    Get right across, stay in line and play the short stuff rather than trying to duck.
    Above all - don't change your shot, something that got Jones and Strauss, among others, out.

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