Do you know that!

[vic_orthdox]

Where's Andy Flower?

[C_C]

Well some of the players who've played against Marshall at his fastest claim that he was around the same speed as 'superfast guys' like Lillee, Bishop, Roberts, etc.
True, he might've been short of the '99mph' list of bowlers like Holding,Thommo,Akhtar,Lee,Waqar, etc. but he was easily over 90mph on a consistent basis from early 80s to late 80s.
Based on what the batsmen say, Marshall's air speed was likely in the low 90s zone but he was almost as fast as anybody after pitching(due to the skid factor, like you mentioned). The 'slowest' amongst the West Indies pace quartet was Garner, who was apparently usually in the mid-high 80s zone but got such disconcerting bounce and had such a pin-point accuracy that he was deadly. Although it must be mentioned that Garner had a series in Australia in the early 80s when he was bowling seriously fast. Alan Border i am sure, remembers.

As per the difference between medium fast and fast medium, i am not 100% sure but i think the former means someone who usually bowls at around 85mph zone but has a spell every now and then in the high 80s/low 90s zone, like Kapil while the latter is a guy who usually bowls in the low 90s but has a spell every now and then in the mid 80s zone...like Gillespie.

[C_C]

Where's Andy Flower?

Drinks boy.

[C_C]

I wouldn't mind someone picking Botham over Dev or vice versa.They are both very very close in their career statistics though personally, i think Dev was superior due to his considerably superior performance against the best of the best- west indies.

[Swervy]

Originally Posted by C_C

Well some of the players who've played against Marshall at his fastest claim that he was around the same speed as 'superfast guys' like Lillee, Bishop, Roberts, etc.
True, he might've been short of the '99mph' list of bowlers like Holding,Thommo,Akhtar,Lee,Waqar, etc. but he was easily over 90mph on a consistent basis from early 80s to late 80s.
Based on what the batsmen say, Marshall's air speed was likely in the low 90s zone but he was almost as fast as anybody after pitching(due to the skid factor, like you mentioned). The 'slowest' amongst the West Indies pace quartet was Garner, who was apparently usually in the mid-high 80s zone but got such disconcerting bounce and had such a pin-point accuracy that he was deadly. Although it must be mentioned that Garner had a series in Australia in the early 80s when he was bowling seriously fast. Alan Border i am sure, remembers.

As per the difference between medium fast and fast medium, i am not 100% sure but i think the former means someone who usually bowls at around 85mph zone but has a spell every now and then in the high 80s/low 90s zone, like Kapil while the latter is a guy who usually bowls in the low 90s but has a spell every now and then in the mid 80s zone...like Gillespie.

kapil bowling at 90mph...sure about that?

[C_C]

Actually Flower deserves mention but i decieded to have one keeper who is an awesome batsman and decent at keeping (Gillchrist) versus another who is an awesome keeper and a decent batsman(Knott).

I guess if there was a way to see a match like this in real life, it would put to rest the neverending question of which skill is the primary one for a wicketkeeper, provided he is atleast decent at both aspects.

[vic_orthdox]

Originally Posted by C_C

Drinks boy.

Thank god we got that sorted. Does a drinks boy need a special armband to signify his role? Because I believe Andy has some of them lying around somewhere. Pre-loved though...

[C_C]

kapil bowling at 90mph...sure about that?

Well since there were no speedguns in that era, i cannot claim with any certainty one way or another but according to Gavaskar and Imran in their books, there were a few matches were Kapil bowled genuinely fast. But suffice to say that was a very rare occurance for Kapil and hence he fits the medium-fast bracket(if my understanding of its definition is correct) quiete aptly.

[Swervy]

on the subject of speed..an interesting article:
http://www.weeklyholiday.net/231103/sport.html

love the bit about the Aussie slips and Rod Marsh standing 36 meters back when Thomson was bowling

[Swervy]

and another:

http://usa.cricinfo.com/db/STATS/FC/...EDS_OTHER.html

with that 1979 study, I think maybe they have underplayed the speeds by about 5mph...Len Pascoe was faster by a fair distance than what it says there

[C_C]

Quiete interesting reads-both of them.
And i agree- 1979 figures look odd.

Thommo was well past his fastest by that time but Holding bowling at 88mph ?????
Was he bowling spin ?

A few comments:


1. When it comes to brutish display of speed and menace, two overs of Holding comes to mind.
One was the legendary over to Boycott that was just picture-perfect. Each delivery was faster than the one before and the final one had Boycott bowled all ends up.
The other was his over to Brian Close. Closey was getting on the years but Holding nearly killed him on the pitch a few times that over.

2. I can certainly see Waqar Younis being the fastest man ever or at the very least, one of the top 5 fastest bowlers in cricket's history. He was timed at 95mph in 1995 or so, after having undergone two stress fractures of the back ! it only leaves to imagination how fast he bowled in the late 80s/early 90s before sustaining his back injury.

3. The author uses the term 'javelin throw' to describe Thommo's action. Now, Thommo had one of the cleanest actions ever- the kind action he had, it would be quiete a chore to chuck. Interestingly, Bedi often uses the term 'javelin thrower' to describe Murali.
Maybe the media has got it all wrong and Bedi is essentially saying Murali's action is clean as a whistle ?


4. A few notable omissions from that list are Srinath,Colin Croft, Rodney Hogg and Mohammed Zahid.
Srinath in the mid 90s was consistently clocking upwards of 90mph and the few times an actual speedgun was used, he upended Donald consistently when it came to speed.
Croft was one of the fastest and most hostile bowlers to ever take the field IMO.
Hogg- well he was known only for his speed so i am guessing he should've been ragingly fast. Feel free to correct me however- i don;t know much about Hogg.
And Zahid had a few tests (before he broke down) where he was clocking some serious speed.
I havn't seen that many pacers making Hooper look slow and lethargic( he always played a dumb shot after looking like he had all the time in the world to play a superfast delivery) but Zahid managed that.
Infact, he was bowling so fast that the keeper was standing closer to the ropes than to the stumps.

[FaaipDeOiad]

Originally Posted by C_C

I don't see how you can drop Imran and include Botham to 'strengthen the bowling'

I didn't just drop Imran for Botham, I dropped Imran and Steve Waugh for Botham and Murali, since the batting was already strong, and this would offer give bowlers and a second spinner.

The other possible change for me would be Chappell for Tendulkar.

[C_C]

Well if you wanna shore up the bowling without overly compromising the batting, i think it would be a good idea to include a bonafide bowler who could bat a bit - my choice would be Pollock or Akram.

[FaaipDeOiad]

Originally Posted by C_C

Well if you wanna shore up the bowling without overly compromising the batting, i think it would be a good idea to include a bonafide bowler who could bat a bit - my choice would be Pollock or Akram.

I think Botham fills that role pretty nicely. As does Imran for that matter, but the idea of picking 5 bowlers and having one of them be Botham is you don't sacrifice much in terms of the batting.

[Swervy]

Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad

I think Botham fills that role pretty nicely. As does Imran for that matter, but the idea of picking 5 bowlers and having one of them be Botham is you don't sacrifice much in terms of the batting.

yep and Botham could actually bowl spin..he once took 6 wickets in an innings doing just that