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Thread: Who is better McGrath or Ambrose

  1. #46
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    West Indian pitches have offered very little to seamers or, more often than not, spinners for a good while now - ask Liam.
    I am indeed saying McGrath didn't earn any of his wickets in the subcontinent or on any other non-seam-friendly pitches, and we've already been through why it is not possible to evoke poor strokes in the limitless-over game.
    And why I don't "go out on a limb" and say all McGrath wickets are from poor strokes is beause they aren't.
    All I've ever said - and it's quite true - is that all McGrath wickets, between 2001 and 2004, on pitches that offer neither seam nor uneven bounce have been due to poor strokes.
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  2. #47
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco
    Ah, thank you Richard......for continuously proving that a little knowledge can actually be dangerous!
    Dangerous, eh?
    Branching-out here, aren't we?

  3. #48
    C_C
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    and we've already been through why it is not possible to evoke poor strokes in the limitless-over game.
    That is all there is to know for one to conclude that you have very little understanding of the art called bowling.

  4. #49
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Dangerous, eh?
    Branching-out here, aren't we?
    Not at all, I actually did Psych at Uni so am eminently qualified to assess you!
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  5. #50
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    West Indian pitches have offered very little to seamers or, more often than not, spinners for a good while now - ask Liam.
    I am indeed saying McGrath didn't earn any of his wickets in the subcontinent or on any other non-seam-friendly pitches, and we've already been through why it is not possible to evoke poor strokes in the limitless-over game.
    And why I don't "go out on a limb" and say all McGrath wickets are from poor strokes is beause they aren't.
    All I've ever said - and it's quite true - is that all McGrath wickets, between 2001 and 2004, on pitches that offer neither seam nor uneven bounce have been due to poor strokes.
    All you say? I wish I could say I found that unbelievable on your behalf.

  6. #51
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Son of Coco: Drop me email. Just a test so I can get yours. Wanna discuss something with you. Relax, it's not bad.

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  7. #52
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat
    Son of Coco: Drop me email. Just a test so I can get yours. Wanna discuss something with you. Relax, it's not bad.

    hookesy@rocketmail.com
    haha, ok mate, I'll talk to you soon...

    P.S: This isn't because I extolled the virtues of that 'stalking school' is it?

  8. #53
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    No, not at all.

    *makes a note*

  9. #54
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco
    All you say? I wish I could say I found that unbelievable on your behalf.
    D'you mean you wish you could say you found that believeable?
    Well whether you find it believable or not that's all I've said - and if you look carefully you'll notice I've said repeatedly that I never really watched McGrath before 2001, and that since Adelaide 2004\05 it seems he's bowled well on flat pitches several times.

  10. #55
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    That is all there is to know for one to conclude that you have very little understanding of the art called bowling.
    You can repeat that all you wish, you won't change the fact that I do.

  11. #56
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco
    All you say? I wish I could say I found that unbelievable on your behalf.
    let me just clear things up a little. the period richard is referring to is this:
    2000-2001 IND v AUS 17 15.35
    2001 ENG v AUS 32 16.94
    2001-2002 AUS v NZL 5 65.40
    2001-2002 AUS v SAF 14 25.00
    2001-2002 SAF v AUS 12 18.92
    2002-2003 PAK v AUS 14 10.86
    2002-2003 AUS v ENG 19 20.00
    2002-2003 WIN v AUS 3 52.67
    2003-2004 AUS v BAN 5 24.80
    2004-2005 AUS v SRL 10 17.10
    2004-2005 Border-Gavaskar Trophy 14 25.43

    off the above series, he claims that he didnt watch either of the tours to india, b'desh cant be included for obvious reasons and the series against SL and in england were largely on seamer friendly wickets so those can be removed. so it boils down to 6 series spread over 2 years:

    2001-2002 AUS v NZL 5 65.40
    2001-2002 AUS v SAF 14 25.00
    2001-2002 SAF v AUS 12 18.92
    2002-2003 PAK v AUS 14 10.86
    2002-2003 AUS v ENG 19 20.00
    2002-2003 WIN v AUS 3 52.67

    so based on these 6 series, one of which was against a schoolboy batting side, and 2 other series were easily part of mcgrath's worst periods in his entire career.
    based on these 6 series, he claims that mcgrath isnt a great bowler and isnt as good as ambrose, no matter how well hes done before or after this period.
    now i think you can decide for yourself whether such a claim is even worth bothering about
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  12. #57
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    And because I've watched these matches and read of the matches I haven't seen, and I can tell quite clearly that he doesn't bowl wicket-taking deliveries on the non-seaming, even-in-bounce pitches, regardless of what his figures are, I don't rate his bowling on flat pitches in this period.
    I haven't seen the period before, and since Adelaide 2004\05 there's substantial evidence that he's bowled well on a number of flat pitches so maybe he's developed his game - injuries sometimes have that effect.

  13. #58
    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    And because I've watched these matches and read of the matches I haven't seen, and I can tell quite clearly that he doesn't bowl wicket-taking deliveries on the non-seaming, even-in-bounce pitches, regardless of what his figures are, I don't rate his bowling on flat pitches in this period.
    I haven't seen the period before, and since Adelaide 2004\05 there's substantial evidence that he's bowled well on a number of flat pitches so maybe he's developed his game - injuries sometimes have that effect.
    where do you read these reports???
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  14. #59
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    And because I've watched these matches and read of the matches I haven't seen, and I can tell quite clearly that he doesn't bowl wicket-taking deliveries on the non-seaming, even-in-bounce pitches, regardless of what his figures are, I don't rate his bowling on flat pitches in this period.
    I haven't seen the period before, and since Adelaide 2004\05 there's substantial evidence that he's bowled well on a number of flat pitches so maybe he's developed his game - injuries sometimes have that effect.
    what do u read in these reports???, u better check them back

  15. #60
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    Ambrose is better.

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