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Thread: Fifteen degrees of freedom

  1. #31
    Hall of Fame Member chaminda_00's Avatar
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    Aren't they going to being in the 15 degree rule as they scienifically proven that this is the limit that an umpire can see if a bowler is straighten his arm on the field. So in theory the rule hasn't changes just the paramater has gone up as a result of scientific proof.

    On another issue i think the doorsa might require a bent arm, when i've tried it in the nets it always feels like i'm chucking it. so i don't bowl it in the game, even tough it is a brilliant bowl and gets most batsmen out. Maybe im bowling it wrong, but neally ever offie that has bowled it has been sighted by the ICC, so their might be something wrong with it.
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  2. #32
    U19 Vice-Captain SpeedKing's Avatar
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    i found this article on Griffith intersesting

    http://www.cricinfo.com/link_to_data...09JUL2004.html

    He must ave had a really horrible action.

  3. #33
    U19 Vice-Captain SpeedKing's Avatar
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    Evertime i try bowling offspin, i chuck and i can feel my arm wobbling every delivery i try. i have also tried bowling legspin and saw myself in the mirror and my arm was totally straight [no suprise Sarwan is the only bowler who doesn't chuck] and of recent i have even developed a wrong 'un without chucking.

    Someone stated earlier that offspinners are more likely to chuck and after the tests i have done on myself, he could be right. i personally think the rules should be put back to 10 degress for all so that no one can have an unfair advantage [there is an unfair advantage] and all cheats should either fix up or find another job.

    BTW Richard said something about armbrace and i don't know why Murali just doesn't use one of them. i mean i remember him turning it loads with one on [i think it was on Channel 4] so he might as well use one in matches.
    Last edited by SpeedKing; 19-02-2005 at 12:12 PM.

  4. #34
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    The C4 documentary with the brace only served to confuse the issue.

    In fact it was pointed out that his arm straightened when bowling the doosra, even with the brace.
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  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    The C4 documentary with the brace only served to confuse the issue.

    In fact it was pointed out that his arm straightened when bowling the doosra, even with the brace.
    I thought the brace was supposed to be a tight fit & rigid?

    Anyway the 15 degrees is ridiculous, ICC do all these highly complex tests with massively different bowling styles and techniques and so what do the ICC do? They create a single angle for EVERYONE to conform to. I can see it happening in the future where someone deliberately bends their arm bowling leg-spin (for example) because they know they've got 15 degrees to work with that they're not 'utilising'.
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  6. #36
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Blewett
    Actually with Charlie Griffith they did notice, several counties complained of him being a 'chucker' yet the Umpires were told not to call him because of:

    1) racial tension within London at the time

    2) the South African controversy was at its height also


    I could quote large chunks of Truemans & Barringtons books as they both divulge into the matter much further with proof of the umpires being told not to call him as well as his whole bowling style changing.




    Chances are you saw footage of Griffith either before or after he was throwing it. As the West Indian cricket board asked him to correct his action after that series.
    It's interesting, these two replies seem to contradict each other.
    First you say to me Griffith was always a chucker, then you say to Corey he wasn't at first then he became one.
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  7. #37
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Langeveldt
    Theres a guy at college who bowls offies and when he deliberately does his "murali" impersonation (we all have lol), he can turn it square on a flat wicket.. While this is not conclusive at all, its still interesting, and there is little doubt in my mind that Murali would be averaging 37 with the ball if it wasn't for his "issue"..

    Still, the ruling is put in place in order to accomodate Murali, and therefore save face for the ICC, the problem has been eradicated by moving the goalposts.. And the anti-Murali brigade now have to put up and shut up while he goes on messing with batsmen's careers from Colombo to Cairns..
    Which "issue" would that be? His disjointed elbow, or his double-jointed wrist? I can confidently tell you that the elbow that has caused so many problems with people who can't understand their eyes deceiving them hasn't affected his bowling at all - why would it? His wrist, of course, has - but that's no more unfair than Shoaib being able to bowl faster than Mr. X because his arm goes around faster than Mr. X's arm.

  8. #38
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani
    BTW, what do u guys have to say about some biomech expert saying that even a steel rod when rotated at the speed of a bowlers' delivery arm continuously for a certain number of times got bent?
    That's interesting, I hadn't heard that one.
    Was it confirmed, or was it just one of those supposed comments?

  9. #39
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedKing
    no suprise Sarwan is the only bowler who doesn't chuck
    He's not, he's just the only one they never noticed chucking (by the old, false, ideals) - if he does something no-one else has ever done I'll eat not just my computer but the planet Earth.

  10. #40
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    The C4 documentary with the brace only served to confuse the issue.

    In fact it was pointed out that his arm straightened when bowling the doosra, even with the brace.
    Really?
    What a truly stupid fool he (or she) who designed the brace was, then.

  11. #41
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    Anyway the 15 degrees is ridiculous, ICC do all these highly complex tests with massively different bowling styles and techniques and so what do the ICC do? They create a single angle for EVERYONE to conform to. I can see it happening in the future where someone deliberately bends their arm bowling leg-spin (for example) because they know they've got 15 degrees to work with that they're not 'utilising'.
    1) The 15 degrees is a range of movement which is deemed to encompass all possible bowling styles as 'legal' and has come from rigorous scientific testing to determine a 'legal range'. More than 15 degrees is considered chucking for any bowler but there will be varying degrees of course.

    2) 15 degrees isn't actually that much to play with. If you can find a bowler which can control how much they chuck within 15 degrees (especially taking in account no-one can physically bowl with a perfectly straight arm so there'd already be several degrees of flexion there), well you'd find a rare human being indeed.

  12. #42
    School Boy/Girl Cricketer Greg Blewett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    It's interesting, these two replies seem to contradict each other.
    First you say to me Griffith was always a chucker, then you say to Corey he wasn't at first then he became one.

    How do I contradict myself? I said Griffith chucked the ball. In my first post regarding him I said that Trueman and Barrington both put forward that when they first played him he DID NOT throw and then later on when they did HE DID throw.

    Never said anything about him ALWAYS being a chucker Richard, just that he did chuck at times in his career so he is a chucker.

  13. #43
    Hall of Fame Member chaminda_00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedKing
    Evertime i try bowling offspin, i chuck and i can feel my arm wobbling every delivery i try. i have also tried bowling legspin and saw myself in the mirror and my arm was totally straight [no suprise Sarwan is the only bowler who doesn't chuck] and of recent i have even developed a wrong 'un without chucking.

    Someone stated earlier that offspinners are more likely to chuck and after the tests i have done on myself, he could be right. i personally think the rules should be put back to 10 degress for all so that no one can have an unfair advantage [there is an unfair advantage] and all cheats should either fix up or find another job.

    BTW Richard said something about armbrace and i don't know why Murali just doesn't use one of them. i mean i remember him turning it loads with one on [i think it was on Channel 4] so he might as well use one in matches.
    Spin bowling is a nature thing, some people can do it and some people can't. It seems that u can't bowl off spin if u think u chuck ever ball. I don't think leg spin bowler are perfect anyway and i've seen guys who straighten their arm when bowling leg spin. The fact that Sarwan didn't straighten his arm is more to do with his indiviual action then leg spin bowling in generally.

  14. #44
    Request Your Custom Title Now! honestbharani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    That's interesting, I hadn't heard that one.
    Was it confirmed, or was it just one of those supposed comments?
    I heard it from Sanjay Manjrekar who was told so by some biomech expert, forgot the name. So I think it is credible.
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  15. #45
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Blewett
    How do I contradict myself? I said Griffith chucked the ball. In my first post regarding him I said that Trueman and Barrington both put forward that when they first played him he DID NOT throw and then later on when they did HE DID throw.

    Never said anything about him ALWAYS being a chucker Richard, just that he did chuck at times in his career so he is a chucker.
    Hmm, maybe I misunderstood, but it seemed like to Corey you said he wasn't a chucker before 1963... but you'd said to me that some people had noticed that he was a chucker at the time when he wasn't very much above average (1959).
    Had he always been one, or did he turn into one?

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