Just to see if anyone is interested...

[micoach]

Yes

It can compare footwork to length of bowling.
It can also tell you how far and hard you hit the ball.
The bowler can use a laptop to set a field and the system will tell you if you were out or not if you hit it in the air.

[knights12]

Ok so now for a seriously probing question, hope you are not offended. You mention the 10,000 hours theory and that using pitchvision can reduce this, but the 10,000 hours is a skill learning thing so how can stats on where the ball landed, how fast it was going etc speed up the learning of a new skill? Skill learning is about feeling, feedback (which you do get some from this system, but it is result feedback not actually on the performance of the skill) repetition and evaluation. Spending however much for a system like this cannot replace having a coach to give you immediate specific feedback, or the questions/tips they ask/give. What actual use does it have for skill development other than giving some occasionally handy stats that could be taken by a coach with a clipboard and a pitch map?

[knights12]

I guess that part of the question is regarding learning a new skill but even a skilled performer who is looking to become an expert performer...shouldnt they increase their ability to evaluate their performance themselves rather than relying on a computer system whcih cannot be out on the field telling them what to do as they go? I think your system definately has its uses but maybe not the ones you are claiming...am I being unfair?

[micoach]

I'm not sure PV could reduce the 10,000 hour rule. If we say that anywhere in our materials I think that is wrong. We can't prove it anyway.

it is also not designed to replace a coach. No way could it do that! A great coach can use it as a tool. Just like a bowling machine can't replace a coach but it can help the coach make you better.

What it does do is give you an objective measure of improvement. Say you are a fast bowler and you want to bowl faster. You track your speed on a PV system, your coach gives you drills which you try then measure again. If you are faster you can pat your coach on the back.

Thats just one example. There are loads of other applications and thats why people like the SA national team and the indoor schools at Headingly and Lord's have installed it.

We have never had objective measures before. PV fills that gap.

great question though.

[knights12]

Thats good....I obviously misinterpreted the 10,000 hour article on your website. What you just said makes complete sense and I agree entirely.

[Tom M]

Introductory article is written, shuold be coming everyone's way soon...

[Ponty]

Originally Posted by Tom M

Interesting feedback. Dave, thank you, I will contacting you in the future.

I will provide a sample soon, but in the mean time I can outline the principles which my research has highlighted as most important:

- Generation of kinetic energy in the run-up
- Stretching of elastic tissue prior to release
- Effeciently transferring kinetic energy to the ball.

There are two ways of improving these principles:

- Technique work
- Strength Conditioning work (includes stretching and flexibility work)

The book will outline the technique, demonstrate how to learn the technique and discuss the right way to do strength conditioning work for cricket. In my opinion, technique work is vastly more important. It is often forgotten that the cricket ball is only 150g, how strong do you have to be to throw or bowl that?

The principles mentioned above can theoretically be applied to bowling with ease. Actually applying it requires hard work, but from my findings it is certainly achiveable. From work with myself and my u11's, the most basic mechanics can be learnt in an hour. My most receptive young bowler was bowling noticeably quicker one session later, although there is still much work to be done on his technique.

I would also stress that although Ian Pont and I are discussing fast bowling, we have vastly different approaches. This is no criticism of Pont, but unlike his book 'The Fast Bowler's Bible' my work will explain why what I suggest works, and why you shouldn't worry about a lot of the stuff that gets taught.

I cannot promise that you'll be able to pick up the book, go down the nets and bowl 10-15 mph quicker. However, I would say that if you worked at it for half a year you would see measureable, significant improvements in your bowling speed and accuracy.

Cheers,

Tom

Just out of interest Tom, how do you feel the Lagrangian model of a fast bowler's action, differs from my interpretation of applying mechanics to the bowling action?

I read your paper, and thanks for sending it. Also thanks for acknowledging that I'm already working with drills that are perhaps at the heart of your findings - stretch reflex, hip drive etc..

The 2005 Fast Bowler's Bible was only a small part of the story and merely a prequel to many of the ABSAT coaching drills, which were formed 10 years ago without giving away the secrets that most bowling coaches would never understand. So the challenge is always to simplify things and not over complicate information. I run fast bowling workshops over 5 hours where I teach those drills to fast bowlers and run ABSAT coach education courses for coaches.

It's hard to convince coaches they need to change, so only by coaching bowlers like Dale Steyn can proof be given the methods work.

The disheartening thing about coaching for the past 15 years is that so few other coaches know anything how to teach speed and accuracy. (I added in the accuracy by the way because the Lagrangian model ostensibly deals with the rotational forces of bowling speeds and not necessarily where the ball lands, although processes lead to outcomes, which is the point of your work.)

Keep an eye out for Reece Topley...son of Don, and a left arm 15 year old prospect.

[Tom M]

Ponty,

To answer your first question, it doesn't really. The model was the start of my research, I now have 3 more months of work under my belt which has changed a lot of my opinions on things. I wrote about it a little bit of pitchvision but I still have a lot to say on the matter. I would say that the model was a good start, but that's all it was.

I will say that the conclusions I've come to are slightly different to yours, although this is mainly a point of emphasis. I'd be quite happy to discuss this with you if you'd like.

I hope the book will add to the very limited library of information on fast bowling. The book will be practical, with information on drills, correct strength work (i.e. the conjugate method) and flexibility (isometric stretching) since I'd like it to a be instructional.

Feel free to contact me if you'd like to discuss this, I always enjoy talking things through with people!