• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

The "No-Loyalty" XI for the Gabba

Matt79

Global Moderator
FaaipDeOiad said:
Games at Lords? Before the Ashes, he averaged 15 with the ball in New Zealand, while our other seamers in Gillespie and Kasprowicz averaged 39 and 45. The four series before that following his comeback he averaged 14, 20, 25 and 17, going back. Kasprowicz or Gillespie came close in each of those series, but none of them matched McGrath's consistency or took as many wickets as him. The only period in recent history when McGrath has been in the side but hasn't been our best and most consistent seamer has been since the Ashes, as he was trumped by Lee against the West Indies and had a poor series against South Africa. If you're going to argue a decline, it has to start with stepping on the ball in Edgbaston, because there's no way he was anything other than the best seamer in the world before that.
Fairplay.
 

howardj

International Coach
FaaipDeOiad said:
We've done the McGrath form debate to death, but you'd have to be mad to think that his performances in the CT were indicative of some sort of decline. He got hammered for four overs against England and two overs against the West Indies, and in both games came back strongly, and in the West Indies game he ripped the heart out of their middle order and bowled beautifully. McGrath has been smacked around in ODIs and even in tests plenty of times before, the key thing has always been his ability to bounce back. IMO, you're really stretching if you think that getting hit for a couple of sixes by Chris Gayle in an ODI means that Stuart Clark is going to be a more dangerous bowler in the first test.

When it comes down to it, if I had to pick any bowler in the country to come out at Brisbane and take two top order wickets in his opening spell and get the series off to a strong start, it'd be McGrath. You can call that breathlessness or selection on reputation or whatever if you want, but I wasn't convinced that he was in serious decline as a bowler before the CT and I'm not convinced now.
You're entitled to your view.

However, Peter Roebuck, a pretty good judge who saw him bowl in the FC match against England the other day wrote:

Although McGrath sent down a few humdingers, and bowled with unwavering control, most of his deliveries lacked the snap, crackle and pop detected in his heyday. At times he looked like a medium-pacer.

And then the day after:

Suspicion is growing, though, that he is not so much short of a gallop as past his peak.

Granted Peter Roebuck's articles are hardly the Magna Carta, however his views at least indicate that it's not exactly a quantum leap in logic to predict that McGrath might fall slightly short in this Ashes series, and that he is in decline. (Anyway, note the word 'series', as I would back any number of bowlers, including McGrath, to pick up a hatful on a 'Gabba greentop, if that's what's served up).
 
Last edited:

age_master

Hall of Fame Member
Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Martyn
Hussey
Clarke
Gilchrist
Lee
Warne
Johnson
McGrath

Tait

Tait looks in pretty good form at the moment, Macgill would be in my team for every other test but on the quickest in thr country pace is more ideal perhaps
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
11 players you thought would produce the most wickets and runs for the team in the 1st Test
That's what you should be doing for every match as a selector, really.

Players don't get selected out of "loyalty" - they get selected due to their proven ability at that level. Players that have proven their ability over a long period are more likely to produce than players that have simply shown some good form at domestic level.

1. Matthew Hayden
2. Justin Langer
3. Michael Hussey
4. Ricky Ponting
5. Damien Martyn
6. Shane Watson
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Brett Lee
9. Shane Warne
10. Mitchell Johnson
11. Glenn McGrath
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
FaaipDeOiad said:
When it comes down to it, if I had to pick any bowler in the country to come out at Brisbane and take two top order wickets in his opening spell and get the series off to a strong start, it'd be McGrath. You can call that breathlessness or selection on reputation or whatever if you want, but I wasn't convinced that he was in serious decline as a bowler before the CT and I'm not convinced now.
I'd just like to dig this up again... :p
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
Yep - I feel a bit of a goose. It was my ploy to gee the big guy up is all. :ph34r:

I've posted an admission of error and requested a slice of humble pie in the "1st Test" thread. McGrath - just an out-and-out champ.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Matt79 said:
Yep - I feel a bit of a goose. It was my ploy to gee the big guy up is all. :ph34r:

I've posted an admission of error and requested a slice of humble pie in the "1st Test" thread. McGrath - just an out-and-out champ.
We've all had our doubts at one time or another. I was a little bit concerned before I saw him bowl in the DLF Cup. He certainly wasn't looking all that flash towards the end of last summer, but I thought the signs were pretty good in Malaysia, and he was fantastic in the CT. Today just capped off the comeback.

He might not be quite as consistent or dangerous as in years past, but there's no question he's the best seamer we've got.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Great Birtannia said:
McGrath AND Langer? It's inevitable those two prove critics wrong, people should know that by now.
Yeah, it's sort of like writing Warne off for his Pura Cup form, or Ponting for his ODI form. In general I think people are far too quick to make judgements about proven cricketers based on temporary stuff. It's one thing to take a long look at Tendulkar or Pollock because they've been down for several years in test cricket, it's another thing entirely to suggest that Ponting is struggling because he doesn't score in a few ODIs, or Langer is past it because of one bad summer when he's making heaps of runs in domestic cricket.

McGrath is a different case and I think there was some legitimate worries, but they were settled a few weeks back IMO.
 

Great Birtannia

U19 Captain
FaaipDeOiad said:
McGrath is a different case and I think there was some legitimate worries, but they were settled a few weeks back IMO.
True. I was worried about playing McGrath, if he didn't get back to something nearing his best, and Clark (more of a reflection on my opinion of Clark) together before the champions trophy finals and the warm up games in Australia.
 
Last edited:

Matt79

Global Moderator
Its hard as well, because whilst I love the guys in the current team, you get the feeling sometimes that we are almost being 'robbed' of the best years of guys like Jaques. I don't want the current guys to get axed, but I'd love to see some of the exciting young talent around the place getting a chance - players like Mitchell Johnson and Cosgrove. I think its why people like Clarke so much - he still had that youthful enthusiasm and spontenaity when he came into the team. The seasoned pros like Hussey are awesome, but you kinda miss seeing players who aren't fully developed cutting their teeth and developing in front of you, like we got to see with the Waugh brothers, or Shane Warne or McGrath.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Let's all calm down, he's only taken two wickets. There's plenty of grounded cricket balls for him to negotiate yet.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
GeraintIsMyHero said:
Let's all calm down, he's only taken two wickets. There's plenty of grounded cricket balls for him to negotiate yet.
The wickets don't have all that much to do with it for me. Obviously it was nice that he took a couple, and the ball to get Cook was spectacular, but it was more the fact that he was bowling in the low to mid 130s, getting sharp movement off the seam on a fairly pedestrian surface, and beating the edge and getting LBW shouts and so on. Basically, he was still McGrath.

Radar was off a little in the first couple of overs though, I think the Strauss wicket settled him down a bit.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

Request Your Custom Title Now!
That Cook delivery was something special. Remniscent of McGrath at his peak. Not saying that he's past it, but it was a quality bit of bowling.
 

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Definately, the ball to Strauss was in the right area too, probably just a tad short but it encticed Strauss into a miscued shot. Then the ball he bowled to Alistair Cook was absolutely marvellous, McGrath at his best really. Just goes to show that the English bowlers didn't get it right, they were too short and not getting the bastman to come forward.
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
PhoenixFire said:
First wicket was fluke, second was a quality delivery.
What - drawing an opening batsman into a stupid shot and exposing a technical flaw? If that's a fluke, he's been doing it consistently for a decade.
 

Top