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Thread: Ashes 2006/07 = Walkover?

  1. #31
    Hall of Fame Member Jamee999's Avatar
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    We're not that good
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  2. #32
    International Coach howardj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoT_SpIn
    Hmm warne doesn't matter does he
    Of course he matters.

    He'll pick up his standard 30-35 wickets.

    That won't eliminate the chance England retaining the Ashes though (see 2005).

  3. #33
    Hall of Fame Member steds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dontcloseyoureyes
    Lee's average has certainly gone down since before the Ashes. Just because it's over 30 doesn't mean it hasn't gone down.
    It's gone down a grand total of 0.21. Not worth writing home about and hardly going to have Kevin Pietersen shaking in his boots.

  4. #34
    BARNES OUT dontcloseyoureyes's Avatar
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    I doubt Kevin Pieterson would shake in his boots to anyone, he's way too cocky.

    EDIT: I take your point though, I thought it had gone down more than that. I didn't bother to check.

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  5. #35
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steds
    And it's funny how Lee is always improving, yet we never see improved results from him. His average is the same as at the start of the Ashes and higher than it was 20 Tests ago.
    Those numbers clearly don't show the truth & how the hell can you say Lee isn't showing any results?, because for anyone who has watched Lee bowl since the ashes would know that he has definately improved..

    Quote Originally Posted by steds
    I'm not doubting the result, Australia will win, but the rest of Australia's bowling attack is weak and there'll be a day when Warne and McGrath aren't there to take all your wickets for you (as proved by McGrath in the last Ashes).
    How can the rest of Australia's bowling attack be weak?, i wouldn't doubt even though Gillespie came back & bowled extremely well in Bangladesh he has struggled in the county championship & probably wont get back to the form that he was between 97-2002 but it would foolish to right him off while Kasper is probably a spent force at the international level these days, but other than that Clark has done very well since coming into the side, Lee has improved since the ashes so much that he is capable of leading the attack while MacGill is a proven international performer.

    Then they are three talented young bowlers in Tait, Johnson & Cullen who have good signs in the initial stages of their careers on the international stage, but its early days for them. But right now to refer to the rest of the Australian bowling attack as weak is wrong.

  6. #36
    Hall of Fame Member steds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie
    Those numbers clearly don't show the truth & how the hell can you say Lee isn't showing any results?, because for anyone who has watched Lee bowl since the ashes would know that he has definately improved..
    Anyone who saw him get flayed in the Supertest or take only two wickets and go for almost 4 an over against Bangladesh, who he should be tearing through? Even in the home series against South Africa, he took wickets rather sporadically for someone who's improved so much. Lee may have improved, but we haven't seen any consistent results.

    Quote Originally Posted by aussie
    How can the rest of Australia's bowling attack be weak?, i wouldn't doubt even though Gillespie came back & bowled extremely well in Bangladesh he has struggled in the county championship & probably wont get back to the form that he was between 97-2002 but it would foolish to right him off while Kasper is probably a spent force at the international level these days, but other than that Clark has done very well since coming into the side, Lee has improved since the ashes so much that he is capable of leading the attack while MacGill is a proven international performer.
    Key word about Gillespie highlighted. Taking wickets against Bangladesh isn't much of an acheivement. I'll give you MacGill. Clark's done decently, but not jaw-droppingly. He'd slipped my mind, actually. Taking wickets against a poor West Indies team and having two half decent series' against South Africa, whilst still going at 3.5 an over more often than not, qualifies you to lead the attack these days, though?

    Quote Originally Posted by aussie
    Then they are three talented young bowlers in Tait
    Please. Tait's no better than Mahmood.

  7. #37
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steds
    Anyone who saw him get flayed in the Supertest or take only two wickets and go for almost 4 an over against Bangladesh, who he should be tearing through? Even in the home series against South Africa, he took wickets rather sporadically for someone who's improved so much. Lee may have improved, but we haven't seen any consistent results..
    In the super-test he was flawed in the 1st innings & bowled much better in the second innings he bowled much better in the second innings even though he only took a wicket & from that point he bowled tremendously well throughout the home summer & in the SA series. Againts Bangladesh as was the situation with the entire aussie side they were obviously burnt & it affected them especially in that 1st test.

    Plus i don't know how you can say Lee took wickets sporadically vs SA at home & was inconsistent , its like you didn't even watch the series because Lee was clearly very threatening in all the 9 test he played vs SA & WI, the only period i remember him honestly looking wayward or back to his old erratic self was on the 1st day of the adeladie test vs WI when he took the new-ball & was bowling crap to Lara & was punished


    Quote Originally Posted by steds
    Key word about Gillespie highlighted. Taking wickets against Bangladesh isn't much of an acheivement. I'll give you MacGill. Clark's done decently, but not jaw-droppingly. He'd slipped my mind, actually. Taking wickets against a poor West Indies team and having two half decent series' against South Africa, whilst still going at 3.5 an over more often than not, qualifies you to lead the attack these days, though?.
    Who are you refering to here Clark or MacGill?

    Quote Originally Posted by steds
    Please. Tait's no better than Mahmood.
    You gotta be crazy dawg, Tait is by far the better young bowler between these two, Mahmood has done nothing impressive for England other than his superb 3 wicket opening spell burst on his debut at lord's other than that he has been utter crap, geez he wouldn't even make Lancashire's starting XI these days.

    Tait on the other hand impressed in the two test he played in the ashes wihtout having fantastic figures, before that he broke Australia's domestic record for the most wickets in a season & that was made even more superb because he is form Sout Australia & had to bowl on that flat pitch for the majority of the time againts some very good domestic batsmen. Even before Australia went to SA he ran through NSW in the ING CUP FINAL & almost single handled won the game for his state when they were pretty much out of it in another exhibition of his great talent. Mahmood hasn't done anything close to that, so i dont see how you can say Tait is no better than Mahmood.

  8. #38
    Hall of Fame Member steds's Avatar
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    Plus i don't know how you can say Lee took wickets sporadically vs SA at home
    Do you know what sporadically means? He took his wickets at a strike rate of 61.3, which is hardly impressive for such a good strike bowler. I never said anything about him not being threatening.


    Who are you refering to here Clark or MacGill?
    The end bit? Your comments tha Lee could lead the attack.


    Tait on the other hand impressed in the two test he played in the ashes
    No he didn't. He sprayed it all over the place.

    Even before Australia went to SA he ran through NSW in the ING CUP FINAL
    He bowled 14 wides, ffs! That's pathetic.

    Tait is just as bad as Mahmood.

  9. #39
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steds
    Do you know what sporadically means? He took his wickets at a strike rate of 61.3, which is hardly impressive for such a good strike bowler. I never said anything about him not being threatening..
    Sporadically means doing something on a irregular basis, so by saying that you are suggesting that Lee was not very threatening. Figures don't tell the whole truth & even though his strike may have bee that (over which ever period you summarized from) he has improved & consistent results where shown throughtout the test matches vs WI & SA.


    Quote Originally Posted by steds
    The end bit? Your comments tha Lee could lead the attack..
    An attacking bowler who bowls as fast as Brett Lee one cannot reasonably expect them to go at under 3 runs per-over most of the time, even when Akhtar ran through England last winter he was going at over 3.5 an over.

    On Lee again he had a fantastic series in South Africa & in in Australia even though he averaged 30 odd he definately bowled better than what those figures shows. So your intial statement that he had 2 half-decent series vs SA while going at 3.5 an over most of the time is clearly false based on these figures & if watched him bowl during the series.


    Quote Originally Posted by steds
    No he didn't. He sprayed it all over the place..
    Yes he srayed it on occassion but he still bowl well at times & the times he did bow well he was impressive, its not like he bowl absolute crap in the ashes which you are trying stupidly proclaim.

    Quote Originally Posted by steds
    He bowled 14 wides, ffs! That's pathetic..

    Tait is just as bad as Mahmood.
    an the 6 wickets mean nothing then?, look at the scores one can easily assume that since SA where trying to defend such a low total Tait would have going all out for pace to try to win in for his side & a accuracy would have been sacrificed. Geez if you don't like Tait just say so dont try to stupidly under-rate him based on nothing at all.

  10. #40
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    Look, it's simple, Australia crap, England good. Ashes = ours.

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  11. #41
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steds
    It's gone down a grand total of 0.21. Not worth writing home about and hardly going to have Kevin Pietersen shaking in his boots.
    Misleading. Since the start of the Australian summer, which is when he started bowling a lot better, it has gone down 2 runs.
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  12. #42
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steds
    Anyone who saw him get flayed in the Supertest or take only two wickets and go for almost 4 an over against Bangladesh, who he should be tearing through? Even in the home series against South Africa, he took wickets rather sporadically for someone who's improved so much. Lee may have improved, but we haven't seen any consistent results.

    Taking wickets against a poor West Indies team and having two half decent series' against South Africa, whilst still going at 3.5 an over more often than not, qualifies you to lead the attack these days, though?
    Half-decent series? He averaged less than 20 in South Africa, and his average of 30 in the home series hardly reflected how well he bowled. Lee was excellent in both series (though he was better in the home one), and bowling like that he's most certainly capable of leading any attack. And as far as consistent results are concerned, he's not exactly had much time has he? He's played 5 series since returning to the side, one of which was the Ashes, and aside from that he's been good 3 times and fairly poor against Bangaldesh. In that time he has 50 wickets @ 26.34, and his economy rate is 3.2, and his SR less than 50. Fairly consistent year for mine, and easily Australia's best seamer in that time. I'd be more worried about Clark, if he plays.

    And as far as Tait is concerned, there's simply no way you could dismiss his bowling in the ING Final if you'd seen it. He can bowl as many wides as he likes if he's also totally unplayable the rest of the time. Obviously a bowler with many flaws, but it's pretty foolish to dismiss him at this stage of his career. Regardless, it's unlikely he will have any significant role in the Ashes unless there's a bunch of injuries. He's currently the fifth choice seamer in a team that is likely to play two spinners a lot.

  13. #43
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Wright
    Screw the no. 8 batting position, in recent years unless you come to Australia with a world class spinner you are not going to be anything close to competitive. India are the only team that I can think of in recent years that have been competitive against Australia for the whole series and they came with two world class spinners in Kumble and Harbajhan.

    England may have been able to get away with Giles filling in overs in England, but in Australia you need an attacking spinner, otherwise with pitch conditions and only quicks you are not going to have as big of an impact. Now, I haven't seen that much of Panesar, but from what I've heard, he's an attacking spinner - just what England will need in Australia.

    Obviously you would like to have a decent no. 8 batsman, but it is more important for England to have an attacking spinner. I mean, Giles' record is worse than ordinary and he isn't exactly a bowling allrounder, but more of a handy tailender who holds up an end with the ball. Nothing more really.
    and how many quality pace attacks have showed up in Australia? How about none. the closest one to a quality pace attack was Nel,Ntini, Pollock, Langeveldt which caused more than enough problems to the aussie batsmen and certainly competed with australia despite the result.
    Yes obviously we could use an attacking spinner, but we dont exactly have them growing on trees you know. Panesar is as i said earlier not even close to attacking, infact hes even worse than Giles, and even more one dimensional and doesnt even possess an arm ball. Australia will definetly try to go after him, and we all know how poorly Panesar bowled when India went after him in Mumbai.
    As far as the number 8 batsman is concerned, i think its absolutely imperative that every side at least have a somewhat competent number 8 batsman. i cant even begin to count the number of games that have been won as a result of valuable lower order partnerships(the most recent one being the 3rd test in the SL- Eng series), and its doubly important in Englands case considering they have a tailender in Geraint coming in at 7.
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  14. #44
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howardj
    The cornerstone to beating Australia is to contain Ponting and Hayden, and score 400 in your first innings. If England can do those two things (as they did in 2005) they should retain the Ashes. With Vaughan and Jones out, their chances of achieving the above are much reduced, but still realistic.
    because Vaughan was clearly setting the world alight with his batting before his injury
    England will struggle to score 400 because Pietersen and co dont have half a brain. Which is a completely different story.

  15. #45
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie
    Tait on the other hand impressed in the two test he played in the ashes wihtout having fantastic figures, before that he broke Australia's domestic record for the most wickets in a season & that was made even more superb because he is form Sout Australia & had to bowl on that flat pitch for the majority of the time againts some very good domestic batsmen. Even before Australia went to SA he ran through NSW in the ING CUP FINAL & almost single handled won the game for his state when they were pretty much out of it in another exhibition of his great talent. Mahmood hasn't done anything close to that, so i dont see how you can say Tait is no better than Mahmood.
    I dont know what you've been watching but to call tait impressive in the Ashes is about as stupid as anything ive ever heard. He took 5 wickets at a brilliant average of 42 and was so poor that Ponting couldnt even trust him with the ball in the final innings at the Oval. Further hes had a poor season thus far in domestic cricket, and i dont see how an OD game proves too much different. Has Mahmood done anything like that? Umm Sajid has been performing consistently on A tours to India, WI and SL. Has Tait done anything like that?

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