Group C - Australia, Sri Lanka, West Indies

[shivfan]

I feel a bit sorry for the West Indies.

They're crap but are better than Bangladesh and should've been given their spot in India's group imo.

It's funny how so many posters are prepared to write the WIndies off in this form of the game....

The WI are a good 20/20 outfit. Especially since their disastrous appearance at the world 20/20 champs in South Africa a couple of years ago.

 

[aussie]

Most people would probably expect me to agree with this given my reputation and my outright dislike of Chris Gayle as a cricket, but I don't really.

I had the same problem with Twenty20 cricket early on, too - I was comparing it to two-innings multi-day cricket (which will be referred to as "cricket" for the rest of the post) too much. It's unfair to expect Twenty20 to be something that it isn't - it doesn't encourage grace of stroke, mental endurance, conservative shot selection, attacking bowling, sound defensive technique or many of the other things I love about cricket, but neither does rugby league and I still watch that. Twenty20 is a different animal and it should be looked upon as such.

I don't watch Twenty20 to admire the players for their skill, analyse their games or drool over their defensive techniques - I have cricket for that. What Twenty20 provides is the contest - a high tempo, high pressure arena where the only thing that matters is the entertainment of factor of the game as a contest between two teams. Be damned if the players involved aren't any good at real cricket - we can criticise them for being over-rated hacks when they pull on the whites.

As such, while there's little I dislike more than watching Chris Gayle score runs in Tests (and even ODIs, tbf), I can appreciate his style in Twenty20 cricket. Twenty20 batting is not meant to be built around a solid defence or be textbook orthodox - it's all about finding ways to score runs off balls that your opposition couldn't, even at high risk of your wicket. Unorthodoxy rules in Twenty20 cricket and, as such, Gayle's perfectly acceptable to me in the format, as long as people don't hype him as a world class cricketer based on his performances in this.

I think you're simply yet to put a barrier up in your own mind between cricket and Twenty20.

Top post. But i have to respectfully disagre with a few parts shotta.

The fact that the aesthetics of T20s as your rightfully said is this non-technically, high tempo, pressure enviroment - that is all about the batsmen. Its not a fair balance between bat & ball which is not cricket.

I wont say im expecting it be like test cricket, but there is no balance, at least ODIs have that to some degree. So although classy batsmen like Sharma, Tendy, Gambhir, Hodge, Hussey etc may also score runs in this format - very ppor players like Dwayne Smith, Luke Wright are made to look good. While others players like Gayle, Sehwag, Dhoni, McCullum, Symonds, Yuvraj, the BANG team who over their careers have issues technically/mentally in the other formats game - can hide those fragilities in a slog-fest.

All T20s is the format that can possibly get other countries involved in cricket seriously. As your righfully said, we should just watch it for action. My point about Gayle was simply to say, top slog dawg - but prepare to get roughed up in AUS again this year.

 

[shivfan]

Why are Oz so heavily favourites for this one? Didn't the Windies win comofrtably the last time they played a T20. Seriously worth a flutter on them.

It was! I bet £10 on a WI win, and I'm getting back £22.50....

 

[pasag]

Luke Wright still looks like rubbish, tbf.

 

[aussie]

I would disagree that Twenty20 doesn't encourage attacking bowling. If it comes up, you're in, it's just a huge risk. I'd say Jerome Taylor got his rewards earlier on.

Its a matter of luck really. The next game he could run into Jayasuriya and Dilshan & get the same treatment Lee got today.

Even Flintoff arguably the most accurate ODI pacer for the last 5 years or, was smoked by AB Devilliers in the IPL..

 

[Prince EWS]

The fact that the aesthetics of T20s as your rightfully said is this non-technically, high tempo, pressure enviroment - that is all about the batsmen. Its not a fair balance between bat & ball which is not cricket.

I wont say im expecting it be like test cricket, but there is no balance, at least ODIs have that to some degree. So although classy batsmen like Sharma, Tendy, Gambhir, Hodge, Hussey etc may also score runs in this format - very ppor players like Dwayne Smith, Luke Wright are made to look good. While others players like Gayle, Sehwag, Dhoni, McCullum, Symonds, Yuvraj, the BANG team who over their careers have issues technically/mentally in the other formats game - can hide those fragilities in a slog-fest.

I don't actually disagree with any of that at all.

However, since just accepting that it was reality instead of whinging about, I've enjoyed the games a lot more. If you watch the game expecting "cricket" then you'll be disappointed. If you watch the game for what it is and don't try to analyse it too much, you'll be enthralled by the contest.

It certainly doesn't have the depth of Test cricket or even (IMO at least) ODI cricket, but that doesn't mean it can't be entertaining anyway, as a contest. It's not truly cricket IMO, but there are lots of things that aren't cricket which I find entertaining - Twenty20 being just one of them.

 

[roseboy64]

Gayle's only had one tour in Australia TBF. Out caught two times so I'd hardly class that as being roughed up.

 

[Prince EWS]

Luke Wright still looks like rubbish, tbf.

Yeah, but he's only scored runs against Holland and Scotland (in a warm-up). I'd be surprised if he had sustained success as a T20 opening bat.

 

[pasag]

I don't actually disagree with any of that at all.

However, since just accepting that it was reality instead of whinging about, I've enjoyed the games a lot more. If you watch the game expecting "cricket" then you'll be disappointed. If you watch the game for what it is and don't try to analyse it too much, you'll be enthralled by the contest.

It certainly doesn't have the depth of Test cricket or even (IMO at least) ODI cricket, but that doesn't mean it can't be entertaining anyway, as a contest. It's not truly cricket IMO, but there are lots of things that aren't cricket which I find entertaining - Twenty20 being just one of them.

The analysis is one of the most interesting parts of it as it's new and uncharted territory for the most part.

 

[Jono]

While others players like Gayle, Sehwag, Dhoni, McCullum, Symonds, Yuvraj, the BANG team who over their careers have issues technically/mentally in the other formats game - can hide those fragilities in a slog-fest.

Wanna know the problem with this part of your post?

Dhoni has one of the best ODI records ever, Yuvraj is a very accomplished ODI batsman, as is Symonds.

Sehwag is probably in the top two opening batsmen of the last decade, or at the very least, 3rd.

So these players are succeeding in other formats too, despite their lack of conventional technique.

It happens in all cricket, not just T20.

 

[pasag]

Yeah, but he's only scored runs against Holland and Scotland (in a warm-up). I'd be surprised if he had sustained success as a T20 opening bat.

Yes, that was my point (i think). A bit sick and delirious here itbt.

 

[Neil Pickup]

What is technique, anyway?

 

[Scaly piscine]

Its a matter of luck really. The next game he could run into Jayasuriya and Dilshan & get the same treatment Lee got today.

Even Flintoff arguably the most accurate ODI pacer for the last 5 years or, was smoked by AB Devilliers in the IPL..

Flintoff isn't really an attacking bowler though. He's more of a quality containing bowler who picks up the odd wicket here and there.

 

[shivfan]

Even if West Indies had been grouped with Netherlands and Bangladesh they would not make the super eights.

I guess you reckoned without the most devastating opening partnership in 20/20 cricket - Gayle & Fletcher.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, but he's only scored runs against Holland and Scotland (in a warm-up). I'd be surprised if he had sustained success as a T20 opening bat.

Scored in the warm-up against the Windies as well

 

[shivfan]

Nah I actually think Lee is a cool guy. Good touch after he dismissed Gayle.

Doesn't mean I don't like seeing him get smashed, but still, nice guy

I've always been impressed with the way Lee interacts with opposition players....

Gayle and Lee were clearly enjoying a good joke there.

 

[roseboy64]

Scored in the warm-up against the Windies as well

Yeah but we bowled short stuff with medium pacers so basically gifting him runs.

 

[GIMH]

Aye, doesn't count for anything, but you can only score against what's there. Wright has done nothing in the past to suggest he will be a success internationally, nonetheless he is in some decent form, hopefully he can whack a few tomorrow...

 

[scorpiogal]

I've always been impressed with the way Lee interacts with opposition players....

Gayle and Lee were clearly enjoying a good joke there.

Top guy, that Brett Lee

 

[aussie]

I don't actually disagree with any of that at all.

However, since just accepting that it was reality instead of whinging about, I've enjoyed the games a lot more. If you watch the game expecting "cricket" then you'll be disappointed. If you watch the game for what it is and don't try to analyse it too much, you'll be enthralled by the contest..

For now i'd say i have an idelogical gridlock againts T20s, since i cant see myself doing that for now. Like just now when Gayle took 27 off Lee. All i was saying was ..."bumbacltahhh Gayle, Lee n Johnson gun catch you back just now though". Too one-sided man, although entertaining

Wanna know the problem with this part of your post?

Dhoni has one of the best ODI records ever, Yuvraj is a very accomplished ODI batsman, as is Symonds.

I was more attacking the test records of the trio, sry for not being specific. Since their ODI records does mask their test fragilties to a level. While their power game suits T20s to the core clearly..

Sehwag is probably in the top two opening batsmen of the last decade, or at the very least, 3rd.

Well I dont want swing this debate too far, since this is a thread for this group C discussion. But only since Sehwag's knock @ Perth has his test credentials sort of been secured.

Before he really was seen as a serious FTB. Although i still reckon good bowling attacks could fail him, but as 317 & 201 in 08 showed, there is some new steel to his batting.

Flintoff isn't really an attacking bowler though. He's more of a quality containing bowler who picks up the odd wicket here and there.

Not really you know. Since he became ODI quality in IND 01- His bowling has always been attacking. Its just that given the dynamics of the ENG ODI bowling attack - in which he has been the ONLY good bowler most of the time. So he has had to adapt a containing role as well.