Shane Warne vs Wasim Akram

[kyear2]

When you doing the Undertaker?

He's already reached his final form

 

[kyear2]

Next Shawn, then Taker.

Noooooooooooo

I assume Hadlee over the others at 3 primarily due to his batting?

 

[Johan]

I assume Hadlee over the others at 3 primarily due to his batting?

Yeah, I personally think Hadlee was near Marshall in bowling and a good lower order bat, Imran was a few points better in batting but eh I think his bowling is worse and he has interesting...caveats.

 

[kyear2]

I'd go
Bradman
Sobers
Tendulkar
Marshall
Imran
Hadlee
Hobbs
Mcgrath
Richards
Kallis

Not a bad list, me personally I rate Hammond over Kallis.

Better batsman and slip. Kinda feel like if you're the absolute best at something, you deserve to be in the top 10, especially if you're also a top 10 batsman.

 

[Johan]

Hammond is easily better than Kallis, better batter and slip.

 

[Thala_0710]

Not a bad list, me personally I rate Hammond over Kallis.

Better batsman and slip. Kinda feel like if you're the absolute best at something, you deserve to be in the top 10, especially if you're also a top 10 batsman.

Yeah Hammond, Warne, Ambrose, Murali and Lara/Smith all were all pretty close for me. It's almost impossible to seperate them

 

[kyear2]

Yeah, I personally think Hadlee was near Marshall in bowling and a good lower order bat, Imran was a few points better in batting but eh I think his bowling is worse and he has interesting...caveats.

Ok, I also think Paddles is top 6, think Marshall and McGrath are clearly ahead of him as bowlers and don't think his batting was nearly impactful enough to force ahead of either.

Marshall's batting is a little under rated, but he neither took it seriously enough nor did he care about averages, so no excuses, basically he has only himself to blame.

But when he was needed, just as often he rose to the occasion.

 

[Johan]

Ok, I also think Paddles is top 6, think Marshall and McGrath are clearly ahead of him as bowlers and don't think his batting was nearly impactful enough to force ahead of either.

Marshall's batting is a little under rated, but he neither took it seriously enough nor did he care about averages, so no excuses, basically he has only himself to blame.

But when he was needed, just as often he rose to the occasion.

all fair beliefs

 

[kyear2]

Yeah Hammond, Warne, Ambrose, Murali and Lara/Smith all were all pretty close for me. It's almost impossible to seperate them

We really don't disagree as much as some would like to make it seem. I would drop Steyn and Kallis in there as well.

 

[Thala_0710]

We really don't disagree as much as some would like to make it seem. I would drop Steyn and Kallis in there as well.

Yeah Steyn there as well ofc. Kallis just made it in no 10.

 

[kyear2]

Hammond is easily better than Kallis, better batter and slip.

Yesssss.

I know Subz believes it's just some ploy to rate Kallis over Imran (and genuine sympathy goes out to him there), but I genuinely believe that it's something we ignore in these ratings and is severely underrated.

For me it's just as important if not more (as a unit) for any team as the other all round skills.

And Hammond being arguably the best as well as a top 10 batsman, deserves more credit than he gets.
And of course there's his understated bowling.

 

[Randomfan]

I have McGrath as my third best fast bowler but it is very obvious that McGrath has holes in his record.

1. Against the second best team of his era, his record is just mediocre.
17 Tests. 57 wkts @ 27.3 and 2 5-Fers.

2. His record in SL & Pak
in SL : 4 Tests. 10 wickets @ 29
in Pak : 5 Tests. 19 wickets @ 31

3. Just one 5-Fer in 17 Tests in Asia

Bold part is weakness for McGrath. Not able to run through batting sides in Asian conditions. Not an easy task at all, but we are talking about best of the best so it's a weakness for me. I tend to ignore one venue or one opponent record so individually 4 tests in SL or 5 tests in Pak is not an issue. Collectively not great. But collectively his avg in Asia is good so not a real issue.

But then very few great bowlers have ability to run through batting sides in Asian conditions. I think this gets ignored sometime when talking about best pacers or spot in ATG XI. 3 test playing nations so it's not a insignificant factor. Steyn turning it on with reverse was huge in Asia. You can't just win tests relying on spinners. Having pacers who can run through sides on any surface is a huge deal.

Anyway, McGrath is in my top 3 pacers in history with Marshall and Hadlee.