Scyld Berry 30 greatest test fast bowlers

[capt_Luffy]

It's just strange to compare someone based on a five year period when he was maybe rated better but then the other plays another decade in international cricketers after that

Also it's funny that he brought in his WI tour, since after that he had a stupidly high reputation there. Especially in Guyana where he was arguably even rated higher than Viv. He really is acting surprised that didn't reflect to the Anglo sphere.

 

[Coronis]

I don't get the logic of rating Barry but writing off Compton's peer reputation, which was absurdly high, as just fanatic romanticism. That one actually irked me if I am honest, peer reputation should be used for all before 2000s or none at all, it sometimes does just come down to favouritism though.

Ok

 

[Johan]

Ok

Good boy

 

[peterhrt]

Polls with multiple judges from around the world should mean more than one man's personal list. Where the opinions come from is still important.

Apartheid-era South Africans were scarcely visible outside their own country, unless they played county cricket. In the Wisden exercise they picked up just 1.2% of the vote. Ten years later they occupied 3.3% of the places in the 101 world teams, mostly courtesy of their fellow-countrymen.

196 Wisden votes were cast for pre-war cricketers. All but seven were for English and Australian players. In the world teams, Headley only received a couple of nominations from outside the Caribbean. Fewer than a quarter of Imran's votes came from outside the sub-continent and only one of Kapil Dev's.

No New Zealander apart from Hadlee managed a single nomination in either exercise. Some who saw left-hander Martin Donnelly thought he was a better bat than Harvey or Morris. The problem was that hardly anybody saw him.

 

[kyear2]

Peterhrt just shared 100 ATG XIs and Gavsaskar has overwhelming superiority there. How can you downplay that and just focus on the Wisden XI?

Btw in the Wisden XI, Lillee received more votes than Marshall and Akram.

I literally answered this already, and provided examples. And I'm not focusing on any one XI. But one should focus on the one that have some level of validity and actually shows a wider understanding of the game and it's history.

And Sunny does make a wide array of XI's he's literally one of the greatest of all time. No one's disputing that, the only one trying to down play anyone are the ones down playing Barry.

 

[kyear2]

Barry was playing FC from 1965, he didn't made debut in 67 for a bar fight. And Gavaskar had an explosive start but then mellowed out. His subsequent Aus and Eng tours both were mid. His 71 WI Series, as you would expect, did much for his reputation in the Carribbean, especially Guyana. Whole ass calypsos were written for him. Nothing here that you don't know, just pretend it doesn't exists.
And yes, Barry made the same 2nd XI, but was clearly the second choice with Gavaskar missing out from the first XI by a single vote. Sutcliffe and Boycott weren't even available to be voted in. Again, nothing you don't know.

I'm very familiar with Barry's career.

There's also a cultural significance linking Sunny to Guyana and Trinidad where he was most popular.

Yes Barry was the 2nd choice, no one pretends that Sunny didn't have a much more significant career, and has a greater reach and audience than Barry, that's kinda the point.

And Barry is significantly higher rated than Sutcliffe and Boycott. There's not even an argument there.

I really don't know what argument you're making.

My argument for choosing Barry, which annoys you for some reason, has been well laid out. You don't have to agree with it, but it's also well made and logical, you can agree to that and just say you disagree.

 

[kyear2]

It's just strange to compare someone based on a five year period when he was maybe rated better but then the other plays another decade in international cricketers after that

From 70 to 76, then his performances in WSC.

And it could be argued that Sunny's best years came against weakened attacks, during WSC years and definitely almost always on slower and less helpful decks.

We're criticizing Barry being the best in the world for only 6 years, but how many ATG's had longer runs? There's quite a short list, and Sunny never quite got there. Not shade, but he didn't.

 

[subshakerz]

From 70 to 76, then his performances in WSC.

And it could be argued that Sunny's best years came against weakened attacks, during WSC years and definitely almost always on slower and less helpful decks.

We're criticizing Barry being the best in the world for only 6 years, but how many ATG's had longer runs? There's quite a short list, and Sunny never quite got there. Not shade, but he didn't.

Not enough compared to a long career of Sunny who is rated ahead

 

[subshakerz]

And Sunny does make a wide array of XI's he's literally one of the greatest of all time. No one's disputing that, the only one trying to down play anyone are the ones down playing Barry.

So Sunny is higher rated?

 

[kyear2]

So which selections made by CW do you have issues with regarding slips specifically and feel these skills are being overlooked?

I've realised that it's basically just a small subsection, mostly trying to prove a point.

They're a few extremes who feel like it's not remotely important and shouldn't be factored in at all, picking teams accordingly, but not only are they in the stark minority, they're not posters whose opinions I remotely value.

Even you've been watching cricket long enough to know the inherent value. You just love to argue.

 

[subshakerz]

I've realised that it's basically just a small subsection, mostly trying to prove a point.

They're a few extremes who feel like it's not remotely important and shouldn't be factored in at all, picking teams accordingly, but not only are they in the stark minority, they're not posters whose opinions I remotely value.

Even you've been watching cricket long enough to know the inherent value. You just love to argue.

Which players specifically did you see being overlooked? I am not arguing here, I am genuinely curious. Can't you give examples from some posts please?

Otherwise I honestly think you might be arguing a strawman that I haven't seen.