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Murali vs Hadlee - who had more impact?

More Impactful Bowler

  • Hadlee

    Votes: 13 65.0%

  • Murali

    Votes: 7 35.0%
  • Total voters
    20
Chin Music

Chin Music

State Captain
Possibly you can say that Hadlee was slightly better against the best opposition. Hadlee was very good v West Indies. Murali, ordinary against Australia, especially away and less good against the Indian batters of the day on their own soil.
 
F

Fuller Pilch

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
DrWolverine said:
At their peak, WestIndies lost just one test series in 15 years. It was to NewZealand and Richard Hadlee played an important part.
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shortpitched713 said:
View attachment 47265
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Facts:

The West Indies arrived in NZ after a dominant and successful tour of Australia. They turned up overconfident. Viv, the greatest batsman in the world, had a sore back and didn't come to NZ.

They didn't adapt to lower, and slower pitches. The weather was much colder, the conditions worse (playing cricket in rugby stadiums) and they weren't stars like in cricket-mad Australia.

Apart from Desmond Haynes, the other batsmen tried to play aggressive shots off the back foot as they had in Australia. In NZ pitches of that era the ball didn't bounce much and they became prime LBW candidates. Haynes scored 55 and 140 in the 1st test.

The Windies lost a 3 dayer to Wellington (with Ewen Chatfield who wasn't in the NZ team at the time taking 13 wickets). The WI also lost the one-off ODI to NZ.

NZ cunningly brought a 2nd spinner - John Bracewell - into their squad for the 1st test (but didn't play him). That clever ruse might've won the series as the Windies obviously thought the pitch would turn and picked off spinner Derek Parry instead of the great Andy Roberts.

The players developed a siege mentality and got upset when NZ outplayed them. They thought things were against them and threatened to leave the tour. They even thought NZ had cheated by making the length of the pitch wrong (2nd test). It was measured and was of course the correct length. They didn't really try hard in the 2nd test when Hadlee scored a century, and he doesn't value that 100 like he valued his match winning bowling in the series.

Fred Goodall, the umpire they didn't like umpired tests from 1965 - 1988. At no other stage in his career was he accused of cheating by visiting teams. He was of course an amateur umpire (he was a school teacher as a regular job).

Interestingly Michael Holding, who infamously kicked out a stump, came to NZ a few summers later to play provincial cricket for Canterbury.
 
Last edited:
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Hall of Fame Member
Fuller Pilch said:
Facts:

The West Indies arrived in NZ after a dominant and successful tour. They turned up overconfident. Viv, the greatest batsman in the world, had a sore back and didn't come to NZ.

They didn't adapt to lower, and slower pitches. The weather was much colder, the conditions worse (playing cricket in rugby stadiums) and they weren't stars like in cricket-mad Australia.

Apart from Desmond Haynes, the other batsmen tried to play aggressive shots off the back foot as they had in Australia. In NZ pitches of that era the ball didn't bounce much and they became prime LBW candidates. Haynes scored 55 and 140 in the 1st test.

The Windies lost a 3 dayer to Wellington (with Ewen Chatfield who wasn't in the NZ team at the time taking 13 wickets). The WI also lost the one-off ODI to NZ.

NZ cunningly brought a 2nd spinner - John Bracewell - into their squad for the 1st test (but didn't play him). That clever ruse might've won the series as the Windies obviously thought the pitch would turn and picked off spinner Derek Parry instead of the great Andy Roberts.

The players developed a siege mentality and got upset when NZ outplayed them. They thought things were against them and threatened to leave the tour. They even thought NZ had cheated by making the length of the pitch wrong. It was measured and was of course the correct length. They didn't really try hard in the 2nd test when Hadlee scored a century, and he doesn't value that 100 like he valued his match winning bowling in the series.

Fred Goodall, the umpire they didn't like umpired tests from 1965 - 1988. At no other stage in his career was he accused of cheating by visiting teams. He was of course an amateur umpire (he was a school teacher as a regular job).

Interestingly Michael Holding, who infamously kicked out a stump, came to NZ a few summers later to play provincial cricket for Canterbury.
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The prequel to ending India's 14 years home reign
 
Johan

Johan

Hall of Fame Member
Chin Music said:
Possibly you can say that Hadlee was slightly better against the best opposition. Hadlee was very good v West Indies. Murali, ordinary against Australia, especially away and less good against the Indian batters of the day on their own soil.
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Hadlee was massively superior against the best team than Murali
 
DrWolverine

DrWolverine

International Captain
Fuller Pilch said:
Facts:

The West Indies arrived in NZ after a dominant and successful tour of Australia. They turned up overconfident.

Viv, the greatest batsman in the world, had a sore back and didn't come to NZ.

They didn't adapt to lower, and slower pitches.

The weather was much colder, the conditions worse (playing cricket in rugby stadiums) and they weren't stars like in cricket-mad Australia.

Apart from Desmond Haynes, the other batsmen tried to play aggressive shots off the back foot as they had in Australia. In NZ pitches of that era the ball didn't bounce much and they became prime LBW candidates. Haynes scored 55 and 140 in the 1st test.

The Windies lost a 3 dayer to Wellington (with Ewen Chatfield who wasn't in the NZ team at the time taking 13 wickets). The WI also lost the one-off ODI to NZ.

NZ cunningly brought a 2nd spinner - John Bracewell - into their squad for the 1st test (but didn't play him). That clever ruse might've won the series as the Windies obviously thought the pitch would turn and picked off spinner Derek Parry instead of the great Andy Roberts.

The players developed a siege mentality and got upset when NZ outplayed them. They thought things were against them and threatened to leave the tour. They even thought NZ had cheated by making the length of the pitch wrong (2nd test). It was measured and was of course the correct length. They didn't really try hard in the 2nd test when Hadlee scored a century, and he doesn't value that 100 like he valued his match winning bowling in the series.

Fred Goodall, the umpire they didn't like umpired tests from 1965 - 1988. At no other stage in his career was he accused of cheating by visiting teams. He was of course an amateur umpire (he was a school teacher as a regular job).

Interestingly Michael Holding, who infamously kicked out a stump, came to NZ a few summers later to play provincial cricket for Canterbury.
Click to expand...
1. Overconfidence
2. Viv had an injury
3. Couldn’t adjust to the situations
4. Couldn’t adjust to the climate
5. They felt opposition were cheating
6. Picked the wrong player

Lots of reasons.
None are valid.
NZ won fair and square. Hadlee played a huge part.
 
shortpitched713

shortpitched713

Cricketer Of The Year
That account has a lot of narrative in addition to whatever facts are there.

I think the touring West Indies side of the time would beg to differ on a number of them.
 
shortpitched713

shortpitched713

Cricketer Of The Year
akilana said:
ATG pacer is superior to ATG spinner.. but didn't India lose to NZ recently with ATG pacer in the side?
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Yeah that conclusion is far too simplistic.

I will say that Hadlee was meaningfully better away than Murali, but Murali was way more instrumental in home wins as he was an absolute unplayable behemoth at home.
 
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