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In terms of match impact, is Botham better than Tendulkar and McGrath?

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Botham in 102 games took over 380 wickets with 4 tenfers, 27 fifers and over 5000 runs with 14 tons. He was a great slipper. Basically a specialist lower order bat and Frontline quality pacer.

In terms of average match impact (not longevity), is he better than Tendulkar or McGrath, and if not, why not?
 

Thala_0710

International Vice-Captain
I don't think anyone bar Bradman can compete with ATG bowlers (especially the top 10 or so) based on match impact solely, simply because of the nature of test cricket and how important taking 20 wickets is. That's not to say that the ATG bowlers are the best cricketers, but test cricket in itself works I'm such a way that they have the max impact.
So on match impact: McGrath>Botham>Tendulkar
 

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I don't think anyone bar Bradman can compete with ATG bowlers (especially the top 10 or so) based on match impact solely, simply because of the nature of test cricket and how important taking 20 wickets is. That's not to say that the ATG bowlers are the best cricketers, but test cricket in itself works I'm such a way that they have the max impact.
So on match impact: McGrath>Botham>Tendulkar
Wouldnt a specialist lower order bat plus slip be able to overcome the gap between an ATG pacer and good bowler?
 

Thala_0710

International Vice-Captain
I think I'd probably need a Pollock-Anderson range level bowler for Botham's batting and fielding to match the impact of McGrath
 

DrWolverine

International Vice-Captain
Botham is the most confusing.
True

14 hundreds and 27 5-Fers

A match winner with both the bat and ball

Not sure even Sobers, Imran, Hadlee or Kallis who are better all rounders can claim that.

They are great in their primary discipline who are decent in their secondary discipline whereas Botham was great with both bat & ball for half a decade
 

Johan

Hall of Fame Member
McGrath and Tendulkar have more consistent impact but when Botham is in zone he'd win you games by himself.
 

Al Salvador

Cricket Spectator
Botham till 1985 was an astonishing cricketer. Took almost same wpm as MD Marshall, DKL, GDM etc. And scored about 35 RPI which puts him in proper very good middle order batsman category. And he did that together. Very hard to match his per match impact. Definitely an ATG cricketer for me. @subshakerz
 

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Botham till 1985 was an astonishing cricketer. Took almost same wpm as MD Marshall, DKL, GDM etc. And scored about 35 RPI which puts him in proper very good middle order batsman category. And he did that together. Very hard to match his per match impact. Definitely an ATG cricketer for me. @subshakerz
Yes he is ATG to me too
 

shortpitched713

Cricketer Of The Year
Botham in 102 games took over 380 wickets with 4 tenfers, 27 fifers and over 5000 runs with 14 tons. He was a great slipper. Basically a specialist lower order bat and Frontline quality pacer.

In terms of average match impact (not longevity), is he better than Tendulkar or McGrath, and if not, why not?
Bowlers > Batsmen so yes to Tendulkar but no to McGrath.

But you do have to understand that when we talk about the outsized impact that ATG bowlers can have due to being able to utilize them more and in clutch situations there is a prerequisite that they have the quality (something the top 15 bowlers all time have), not just volume.

Botham's quality on the bowling end declined dramatically in the second half of his career, so to me that doesn't necessitate that his all-round skills would be valued over a specialist, the way it's obvious an Imran's or Hadlee's should.
 

Johan

Hall of Fame Member
An underrated factor of Botham's record is the rate he took five-wicket hauls and made hundreds at, Until he broke his ribs in Australia in 1986 which finished him off as a bowler, He averaged 35 with the bat and 27 with the ball, but took 27 five-wicket hauls in 151 innings and not the wanker kind of five wicket hauls either, didn't not out farm either. Also made 14 centuries in 140 innings which means around one every ten innings.

He took a five wicket haul every 5.59 innings, among other bowlers, It was even better than Akram, Anderson, Ambrose and even Lillee. Though obviously, Ambrose and likely Akram had higher competition for wicket, but that shows what frequency Botham caused a storm at and it was very often. He was averaging 27 with the ball, with a 2.42 WPI and that frequency of five wicket hauls, which is exceptional in any context.

Hundreds wise, he has more hundreds than Stephen Fleming and Babar Azam, Atherton had 2 more despite playing 72 more innings in this context, Nasser had the same number but in 31 more innings, Stewart has one more despite 95 more innings, Lamb had the same frequency of hundreds too, even David Gower and Graham Gooch have an inferior frequency of hundreds, even Graham Thorpe among middle order batsmen has a worse frequency. Heck, even Joe Root before 2021, hailed as one of the four modern greats, had an inferior route albeit I'll admit he had the habit of making fifties and then getting out.

All that and was an ATG fielder on top, legendary in the slips and extraordinary in the outfield. obviously, with that frequency of high end pertormances, I have to assume the mean was pretty low for him but still, prior directly correlates to match performance and should definitively be given credit for his frequency of high level performances.
 
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