Harold Larwood vs Dennis Lillee – who was faster?

[Johan]

It's obvious who the better bowler was (Larwood>Hoggard>Lillee) but who was the faster bowler?

 

[ataraxia]

This poll ends a streak of 20 consecutive comparisons in which I have voted against Lillee. (I controversially voted for him in this poll.)

 

[capt_Luffy]

This poll ends a streak of 20 consecutive comparisons in which I have voted against Lillee. (I controversially voted for him in this poll.)

Learn from PEWS. He voted even Philander over Lillee.

 

[Johan]

PEWS would vote Hirst over Lillee

 

[capt_Luffy]

Anyways, Larwood was faster. IIRC, David Firth estimated his top speed in his book Fastmen to be 154.5 kmph

 

[Johan]

Anyways, Larwood was faster. IIRC, David Firth estimated his top speed in his book Fastmen to be 154.5 kmph

 

[sayon basak]

PEWS would vote Hirst over Lillee

Hirst was a great player.

 

[Johan]

Hirst was a great player.

Eh

 

[sayon basak]

Eh

He was absolutely great in FC. And he played in an era where I think FC should be taken into a decent consideration.

 

[Johan]

He was absolutely great in FC. And he played in an era where I think FC should be taken into a decent consideration.

My problem with Hirst is more of skill than of record, outside of one game at Melbourne where it rained hard and rendered the wicket a stickie, he averaged 60 in Australia on good pitches, so it really gives me the idea his bowling was just more internally suited on those stickies and tough wickets and he was rendered a stock bowler on more less damaged and harder wickets. I place him in a similar category as Derek Shackleton, Tom Cartwright and Les Jackson.

 

[sayon basak]

My problem with Hirst is more of skill than of record, outside of one game at Melbourne where it rained hard and rendered the wicket a stickie, he averaged 60 in Australia on good pitches, so it really gives me the idea his bowling was just more internally suited on those stickies and tough wickets and he was rendered a stock bowler on more less damaged and harder wickets. I place him in a similar category as Derek Shackleton, Tom Cartwright and Les Jackson.

Oh, you were talking about bowling alone? I thought you were talking about him as an all rounder. We have to keep in mind that he batted on those wickets, and averaged 30, which was more than good in his era.

 

[Johan]

Oh, you were talking about bowling alone? I thought you were talking about him as an all rounder. We have to keep in mind that he batted on those wickets, and averaged 30, which was more than good in his era.

Yeah overall he's good as a player, bowling alone and I don't think I can really justify putting him high, I value versatlity and adaptability.

 

[sayon basak]

Yeah overall he's good as a player, bowling alone and I don't think I can really justify putting him high, I value versatlity and adaptability.

Understandable, overall rate him high, but never thought of him as a "great" bowler.

 

[Coronis]

Probably Lillee pre injury. But that was like, 10 matches into his career.

 

[Johan]

Probably Lillee pre injury. But that was like, 10 matches into his career.

Pre Injury Lillee and Larwood I reckon were similar speed and Lillee was aided by the internally much faster wickets of Australia by the 1970s, don't think Lillee bowled at the same speed as Larwood consistently after the injury tbh

 

[capt_Luffy]

Oh, you were talking about bowling alone? I thought you were talking about him as an all rounder. We have to keep in mind that he batted on those wickets, and averaged 30, which was more than good in his era.

34

 

[MartinB]

Anyways, Larwood was faster. IIRC, David Firth estimated his top speed in his book Fastmen to be 154.5 kmph

Lillee was timed at 154.8 km/h (96.2 mph) in 1975, he was probably faster pre injury

 

[Johan]

Lillee was timed at 154.8 km/h (96.2 mph) in 1975, he was probably faster pre injury

how many years though? Larwood was express from beginning to end, was Lillee so?

 

[MartinB]

how many years though? Larwood was express from beginning to end, was Lillee so?

Lillee's progression

* Flat out most of the Time up until the back injury 72/73
* 74/75 - 78 Mostly Fairly quick (140+ km/h) but with the ability change up to 150+ km/h
* 79 Mostly bowling 138-140 km/h, Initially he still had a very quick fast ball that slowed over the years