Thala_0710
International Captain
Better test batsman?
-
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Gordon Greenidge vs David Gower
- Thread starter Thala_0710
- Start date
Johan
Hall of Fame Member
one of the most overrated batsmen on this site (Gordon) vs one of the more underrated batsmen on the site (Gower), I did a post on this matter.
Now regarding Greenidge, I did not want to bring it up but there's really no reason he is decisively better than even David Gower, I often went into depth on why Gooch is equal to Gordon but never about David, but on David. RPI in brackets.
Career averages and Run-Per-Inning
Gower: 44.25 (40.15)
Greenidge: 44.72 (40.85)
Greenidge is slightly ahead here, but here comes the catch, Greenidge didn't have to play the West Indies, Gower did and therefore the bowling unit of the time was dodged and believe me during the 1980s there was an immense gap between England and West Indies in bowling, The Carribean Unit averaged 25 while the English unit averaged 35, India was horrible and they were at 36 so overall Greenidge had a huge advantage over Gower, what does Gower average minus the West Indies?
Gower: 46.90 (42.60)
clearly, Gordon falls backwards here, and this is without World Series Cricket, if that is included Gower would have an edge in pure direct statistics, no need to remove West Indies.
Overseas
Gordon: 42.22 (39.5)
Gower: 46.06 (41.96)
Gower also did well in West Indies, only failed against them at home wickets, and it doesn't take a genius to realise Gower had harder home wickets than Greenidge did.
Asia
Gordon: 36.23 (34.22)
Gower: 56.90 (47.41)
Gordon had tougher pitches in Asia but Gower was too amazing to not be given the advantage.
In Australia
Gordon: 30.97 (29.03)
Gower: 44.49 (40.53)
Gordon was amazing in England but Gower averaged 43 in West Indies which given the bowling order was very good too, Gower didn't get games in New Zealand, only 4 innings. Gower did bash Hadlee at home in swing and seam friendly conditions against dukes though
Worst Countries with decent sample
Gordon
Pakistan (17.27)
Australia (30.97)
Gower
India (37.20)
Against common opponents
vs Australia
David Gower averages 4 points higher, he averages 44.8, Gordon 40.7
vs New Zealand
Gordon Greenidge averages 5 points higher, he averaged 55, Gower 50
vs Pakistan
David Gower averages 18 points more, He averaged 49, Greenidge did 31
vs India
Gordon Greenidge averages 3 points more, He averaged 47, Gower did 44.
So Gower did mininum of 44.8 against all of their mutual opponents, Greenidge barely over 40 against Australia and 31 against Pakistan, also has a bogey country in Pakistan.
Now Gordon did get some very difficult pitches in Pakistan but that's no excuse to average 17, Haynes got the same and did mid 30s, Viv did well too, Richardson got the same pitches and did 31 too.
Now, against common opponents...
Gower: 46.28 (42.30)
Gordon: 42.60 (38.20)
Greenidge gets opener boost and the fact he did so well in England puts them on the same level, but Gower gets boost for carrying a pretty weak batting after Boycott went away and he was lesser anyway for most of Gower's career. Gower averages 47 to Greenidge's 44 once Windies is removed, has a superior away record, no real bogey country and so forth, and had good output in West Indies on top.
Forget Compton, that's a different league, is there anything objective that makes Greenidge superior to even David Gower? This is World Series Cricket
Greenidge: 43.74 (39.96)
his average in World Series Cricket when playing in Australia was 37, in West Indies against a Lillee amp Australia was..31, also another good point there, Gordon never had to play a Lillee led Australian attack in West Indies, once he did, he didn't do very well. Gower had to play 6 international tests against a Lillee amped Australian attack in England, 5 of them had the freak Terry Alderman too.
So Yeah, Greenidge is arguably not above even Gower. Now one can claim that Greenidge may have succeeded against the Windies quaret, I won't bet on it, we are talking about Marshall/Croft/Holding/Garner, and then Garner/Marshall/Holding, then Ambrose, Walsh and Marshall. Greenidge completely faded away against Lillian Thomson, and that attack did not even come remotely close to the West Indies ones.
Now regarding Greenidge, I did not want to bring it up but there's really no reason he is decisively better than even David Gower, I often went into depth on why Gooch is equal to Gordon but never about David, but on David. RPI in brackets.
Career averages and Run-Per-Inning
Gower: 44.25 (40.15)
Greenidge: 44.72 (40.85)
Greenidge is slightly ahead here, but here comes the catch, Greenidge didn't have to play the West Indies, Gower did and therefore the bowling unit of the time was dodged and believe me during the 1980s there was an immense gap between England and West Indies in bowling, The Carribean Unit averaged 25 while the English unit averaged 35, India was horrible and they were at 36 so overall Greenidge had a huge advantage over Gower, what does Gower average minus the West Indies?
Gower: 46.90 (42.60)
clearly, Gordon falls backwards here, and this is without World Series Cricket, if that is included Gower would have an edge in pure direct statistics, no need to remove West Indies.
Overseas
Gordon: 42.22 (39.5)
Gower: 46.06 (41.96)
Gower also did well in West Indies, only failed against them at home wickets, and it doesn't take a genius to realise Gower had harder home wickets than Greenidge did.
Asia
Gordon: 36.23 (34.22)
Gower: 56.90 (47.41)
Gordon had tougher pitches in Asia but Gower was too amazing to not be given the advantage.
In Australia
Gordon: 30.97 (29.03)
Gower: 44.49 (40.53)
Gordon was amazing in England but Gower averaged 43 in West Indies which given the bowling order was very good too, Gower didn't get games in New Zealand, only 4 innings. Gower did bash Hadlee at home in swing and seam friendly conditions against dukes though
Worst Countries with decent sample
Gordon
Pakistan (17.27)
Australia (30.97)
Gower
India (37.20)
Against common opponents
vs Australia
David Gower averages 4 points higher, he averages 44.8, Gordon 40.7
vs New Zealand
Gordon Greenidge averages 5 points higher, he averaged 55, Gower 50
vs Pakistan
David Gower averages 18 points more, He averaged 49, Greenidge did 31
vs India
Gordon Greenidge averages 3 points more, He averaged 47, Gower did 44.
So Gower did mininum of 44.8 against all of their mutual opponents, Greenidge barely over 40 against Australia and 31 against Pakistan, also has a bogey country in Pakistan.
Now Gordon did get some very difficult pitches in Pakistan but that's no excuse to average 17, Haynes got the same and did mid 30s, Viv did well too, Richardson got the same pitches and did 31 too.
Now, against common opponents...
Gower: 46.28 (42.30)
Gordon: 42.60 (38.20)
Greenidge gets opener boost and the fact he did so well in England puts them on the same level, but Gower gets boost for carrying a pretty weak batting after Boycott went away and he was lesser anyway for most of Gower's career. Gower averages 47 to Greenidge's 44 once Windies is removed, has a superior away record, no real bogey country and so forth, and had good output in West Indies on top.
Forget Compton, that's a different league, is there anything objective that makes Greenidge superior to even David Gower? This is World Series Cricket
Greenidge: 43.74 (39.96)
his average in World Series Cricket when playing in Australia was 37, in West Indies against a Lillee amp Australia was..31, also another good point there, Gordon never had to play a Lillee led Australian attack in West Indies, once he did, he didn't do very well. Gower had to play 6 international tests against a Lillee amped Australian attack in England, 5 of them had the freak Terry Alderman too.
So Yeah, Greenidge is arguably not above even Gower. Now one can claim that Greenidge may have succeeded against the Windies quaret, I won't bet on it, we are talking about Marshall/Croft/Holding/Garner, and then Garner/Marshall/Holding, then Ambrose, Walsh and Marshall. Greenidge completely faded away against Lillian Thomson, and that attack did not even come remotely close to the West Indies ones.
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Thala_0710
International Captain
@capt_Luffy et tu Brute
Johan
Hall of Fame Member
you literally have Greenidge over Weekes, he was never with you
capt_Luffy
Hall of Fame Member
I literally told you a few days back I think Hayden and Greenidge are equivalent, while you are Cuthbert ahead of Weekes and Compton
Thala_0710
International Captain
You voted for Greenidge over Gooch though.
Gower>Greenidge>Gooch is weird tbh
capt_Luffy
Hall of Fame Member
All 3 are pretty equal.