Fred Trueman vs Michael Holding

[DrWolverine]

A very interesting way of "Relying on his records".

Trueman played in 3 away countries.
NZ was a minnow.
In the other 2, his record isn’t great.
vs WI : 3 Tests. 9 wickets @ 46.
vs WI : 5 Tests. 21 wickets @ 26
vs Aus : 3 Tests. 9 wickets @ 30
vs Aus : 5 Tests. 20 wickets @ 26
Nothing spectacular tbh

Trueman never played in Asia. Yes he was a great bowler and maybe he could have done well in Asia but that’s just speculation.

 

[DrWolverine]

Fred Trueman not playing in Asia should be plus if anything. Asian teams back then weren't some immovable object.

True.

So in the two places that actually mattered, he was not that great.

 

[DrWolverine]

Trueman. Lillee.

I still consider them great bowlers but I can’t place them above those who proved themselves across a wider range of conditions.

 

[Johan]

Surely there’s someone.

Anyway I’m not sure what your issue is with Chappell. His main weakness is a relatively poor record in England. Which is still far better than say, Root’s record in Australia

It's a general lack of work overseas

Root in Australia is an issue, but he makes runs elsewhere IE India, South Africa, New Zealand and sometimes turners in SL. Greg did fine in Australia and West Indies but went missing on challenging Pak and New Zealand wickets, his biggest knock in NZ came on a road against a pre Hadlee attack, his biggest knock in Pakistan is on the roadiest road to ever road. He is often compared to Gavaskar, but I think Gavaskar's away record is bounds superior.

I'm not an away record enthusiast but it's just weird how certain people call out Compton or Trueman for away records while Chappell and Lillee get away squat free.

 

[Johan]

So in the two places that actually mattered, he was not that great.

He won a series in West Indies for England in 1960. He had one bad series in West Indies in 1954-55 in the most controversial tour in history of English Cricket and one ok one in Australia when his back had an injury in 1958-59. He toured both countries in 1960s and even though it took place on roads, bowled every well