Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Which would be the strongest test batting lineup?
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Australia without Smith, England without Root, or NZ without Williamson?
- Thread starter Fuller Pilch
- Start date
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Also has the new Chris Martin in Zak Crawley.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Openers: Khawaja & Konstas
3/4 Inglis & Green (Marnus), McSweeney? Patterson?
5/6/7 Head, Webster, Carey
Openers: Crawley & Duckett
3/4 Pope &
Openers: Latham & Mariu (Conway)
3/4 Young & Ravindra
5/6/7 Mitchell, Phillips, Hay (Blundell),
3/4 Inglis & Green (Marnus), McSweeney? Patterson?
5/6/7 Head, Webster, Carey
Openers: Crawley & Duckett
3/4 Pope &
Openers: Latham & Mariu (Conway)
3/4 Young & Ravindra
5/6/7 Mitchell, Phillips, Hay (Blundell),
Nintendo
Cricketer Of The Year
Lineup's without each player (IMO) and recent form of those players (Last WTC batting averages)
England
1.Duckett; 1610 @39.3
2.Crawley; 1299 @37.1
3.Pope; 1255 @ 35.85
4.Bethell; 260 @52 (No idea who they would actually replace root with; Bethell seems to be the backup there most confident in)
5.Brook; 1521 @50.7
6.Stokes; 1016 @ 32.77
7.Smith; 641 @ 42.73
8.Woakes 295 @19.66
9.Atkinson 352 @ 23.46
10.Carse 94 @18.8
11.Bashir 76 @6.9
Australia:
1. Khawaja 1428 @39.66
2. Konstas; 113 @28.25
3. Marnus; 974 @27.82 (I know marnus got dropped for Windies, putting him here because I think it best represents the current state of #3).
4.Green; 409 @31.46
5.Head; 1197 @34.2
6.Webster; 231 @ 46.2
7.Carey; 1020 @35.17
8. Cummins 523 @ 20.1
9. Starc 378 @15.75
10. Lyon 251 @12.55
11.Haze 82 @ 11.71
New Zealend;
1. Conway 433 @19.86
2. Latham; 684 @24.42
3. Young; 481 @ 40.08
4.Ravindra; 983 @42.78
5.Mitchell; 743 @ 30.95
6.Blundell; 480 @ 20
7.Phillips; 676 @33.8
8. Santner 300 @ 30
9. Smith 80 @20
10. Henry 187 @12.46
11. O'rourke 18 @ 3
England (Scything 5 off each batting average)
1.Duckett; 1610 @34.3
2.Crawley; 1299 @32.1
3.Pope; 1255 @ 30.85
4.Bethell; 260 @47 (No idea who they would actually replace root with; Bethell seems to be the backup there most confident in)
5.Brook; 1521 @45.7
6.Stokes; 1016 @ 27.77
7.Smith; 641 @ 37.73
8.Woakes 295 @14.66
9.Atkinson 352 @ 28.46
10.Carse 94 @13.8
11.Bashir 76 @1.9
I voted England off the top of my head before looking at this. Think the recent form reflects that? Australia have one player averaging over 40; Khawaja is at 39.66 as well but I think that's a bit generous given how he's been post 2023 ashes. England have noene under 30, a #7 who averages 5-10 more than Aus and NZ's equivalent and three players over 50. NZ have three top 7 batters averaging under 25 and another just above 30, and only 2 guys @40+ and noene @45. There tail is arguably stronger but I don't think that makes up for the difference in top order's. Even if you randomly remove 5 from each england player's average because they've played ireland/zimbabwe, played in Pakistan while noene else did, or have flatter home pitches, they still look better.
Some caveats do come to mind. Green's best work in FC comes @4 and 5 in FC (averages 55+ in both positions) and averages 50+ @4 in test's over a small sample. 31.5 may be a bit harsh on him vs how he would actually do replacing smith @4. Bethell is a very small sample size and I doubt he would average 52 if you replaced him with root right now. There's a lot more wrong with this obviously.
England
1.Duckett; 1610 @39.3
2.Crawley; 1299 @37.1
3.Pope; 1255 @ 35.85
4.Bethell; 260 @52 (No idea who they would actually replace root with; Bethell seems to be the backup there most confident in)
5.Brook; 1521 @50.7
6.Stokes; 1016 @ 32.77
7.Smith; 641 @ 42.73
8.Woakes 295 @19.66
9.Atkinson 352 @ 23.46
10.Carse 94 @18.8
11.Bashir 76 @6.9
Australia:
1. Khawaja 1428 @39.66
2. Konstas; 113 @28.25
3. Marnus; 974 @27.82 (I know marnus got dropped for Windies, putting him here because I think it best represents the current state of #3).
4.Green; 409 @31.46
5.Head; 1197 @34.2
6.Webster; 231 @ 46.2
7.Carey; 1020 @35.17
8. Cummins 523 @ 20.1
9. Starc 378 @15.75
10. Lyon 251 @12.55
11.Haze 82 @ 11.71
New Zealend;
1. Conway 433 @19.86
2. Latham; 684 @24.42
3. Young; 481 @ 40.08
4.Ravindra; 983 @42.78
5.Mitchell; 743 @ 30.95
6.Blundell; 480 @ 20
7.Phillips; 676 @33.8
8. Santner 300 @ 30
9. Smith 80 @20
10. Henry 187 @12.46
11. O'rourke 18 @ 3
England (Scything 5 off each batting average)
1.Duckett; 1610 @34.3
2.Crawley; 1299 @32.1
3.Pope; 1255 @ 30.85
4.Bethell; 260 @47 (No idea who they would actually replace root with; Bethell seems to be the backup there most confident in)
5.Brook; 1521 @45.7
6.Stokes; 1016 @ 27.77
7.Smith; 641 @ 37.73
8.Woakes 295 @14.66
9.Atkinson 352 @ 28.46
10.Carse 94 @13.8
11.Bashir 76 @1.9
I voted England off the top of my head before looking at this. Think the recent form reflects that? Australia have one player averaging over 40; Khawaja is at 39.66 as well but I think that's a bit generous given how he's been post 2023 ashes. England have noene under 30, a #7 who averages 5-10 more than Aus and NZ's equivalent and three players over 50. NZ have three top 7 batters averaging under 25 and another just above 30, and only 2 guys @40+ and noene @45. There tail is arguably stronger but I don't think that makes up for the difference in top order's. Even if you randomly remove 5 from each england player's average because they've played ireland/zimbabwe, played in Pakistan while noene else did, or have flatter home pitches, they still look better.
Some caveats do come to mind. Green's best work in FC comes @4 and 5 in FC (averages 55+ in both positions) and averages 50+ @4 in test's over a small sample. 31.5 may be a bit harsh on him vs how he would actually do replacing smith @4. Bethell is a very small sample size and I doubt he would average 52 if you replaced him with root right now. There's a lot more wrong with this obviously.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Good analysis but I think Conway and Blundell have both played their last test.
Nintendo
Cricketer Of The Year
NZ are also pretty Grim without Williamson NGL. Who's there best batsmen not named Williamson? Rachin?
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Rachin unless Mitchell finds form. Young has a great technique but not the runs to show for it.
Hopefully the likes of Mariu and Abbas can be real stars.
Nintendo
Cricketer Of The Year
Simmed Aus vs ENG
1st test:
England bat:
End of day 1: England 320/9; Crawley 66(95) Stokes 64(105) Brook 56(90) Hazelwood 53-3 Lyon 86-3
England 333 All out
End of day 2: Australia 350/5 Inglis 115(166)* Head 82(83) Webster 58(107) Carse 2-30
End of day 3: Australia 673 All out: Carey 137(217) Inglis 115(168) Starc 95(123) Woakes 110-3 Atkinson 155-3
End of day 4: England 272/4 Crawley 70(146) Pope 60(140) Duckett 54(112)
England 503/5 Declared: Brook 122(225) Stokes 95*(217) Hazlewood 2-68
End of day 5: Match Drawn Australia 159/6 6 runs short; Green 69(45) Carey 41(21)* Atkinson 3-40
Brook MOTM
1st test:
2nd test: Same XI; England win the toss and bat
England 276 All out: Bethell 84(94) Brook 76(121) Starc 4-46 Lyon 3-82
End of day 1: Australia 74/1 Konstas 38(61) Usman 19*(66)
End of day 2: Australia 392 All out Green 124(166) Usman 84(211) Webster 57(82) Bashir 103-4 Carse 17-2
End of day 3: England 388/4 Duckett 180(243) Crawley 93(144) Cummins 2-63
England 529 All out: Stokes 60(73) Carse 49(65)* Cummins 4-93 Webster 3-95
End of day 4: Australia 182/1 Inglis 95(148)* Khawaja 76(141)* Atkinson 1-42
Australia 384 All out, Inglis 123(177) Usman 121(235) Head 66(62) Atkinson 5-107 Stokes 3-101
England Win by 28 runs, Duckett MOTM
2nd test:
3rd Test: Same XI; England win the toss and bat
End of day 1: England 338 All out; Brook 73(95), Bethell 66(96) Atkinson 56(125) Hazlewood 5-86 Starc 46-3
End of day 2: Australia 227 All out; Green 74(138) Inglis 53(79) Stokes 53-3 Woakes 66-3
England 280 All out; Stokes 134(178) Brook 25(48) Smith 25(49) Cummins 4-59 Starc 2-49
End of day 3: Australia 49/1 Konstas 27(36)* Inglis 15(14)* Atkinson 1-16
End of day 4: Australia 347/6 Inglis 103(144) Green 62(139) Webster 57(108)* Head 54(98) Stokes 2-73
Australia 394-7 Webster 79(167)* Cummins 38(59) Bashir 112-3
Australia win, Series 1-1; Stokes MOTM
3rd test:
4th Test: Same XI; Australia win the toss and bat
End of day 1: Australia 334/4 ; Inglis 101(163), Green 91(143)* Webster 57(117)* Bashir 2-79
Australia 491 All out: Webster 141(242) Green 97(150) Bashir 3-120 Atkinson 3-166
End of day 2: England 136/4 Crawley 55(128) Duckett 30(78) Cummins 2-35
England 226 All out; Smith 35(83)* Brook 30(51) Lyon 3-35
End of day 3: Australia 166/3 Inglis 44(103) Green 43(115)* Head 36(53)* Woakes 1-31 Stokes 1-36
Australia 271/8 Declared Green 95(176) Head 46(62) Atkinson 4-77 Bashir 2-78
England 193 All out; Pope 72(124) Bethell 37(65) Lyon 4-68 Starc 4-53
Australia win, Series 2-1; Green MOTM
4th test:
5th Test:
England win the toss and bat; Same XI'S
End of day 1: England 326/8 Duckett 107(178) Crawley 89(143) Pope 66(106) Hazlewood 3-44 Lyon 3-103
England 339 All out; Cummins 2-64
Australia 269 All out; Head 122(149), Usman 47(71) Carey 41(43) Atkinson 5-89 Woakes 3-71
End of day 2: England 175/4 Pope 80(83)* Starc 2-73 Lyon 2-17
England 292 All out; Pope 89(93) Crawley 48(66) Stokes 32(66) Lyon 6-56
End of day 3: Australia 139/4 Green 49(54)* Inglis 39(44) Carse 1-21 Bashir 1-29
Australia 346 All out Green 122(193) Cummins 55(61) Starc 33(41) Stokes 3-61 Atkinson 3-92
England win by 16 runs; Pope MOTM; Series drawn 2-2
5th Test:
1st test:
England bat:
End of day 1: England 320/9; Crawley 66(95) Stokes 64(105) Brook 56(90) Hazelwood 53-3 Lyon 86-3
England 333 All out
End of day 2: Australia 350/5 Inglis 115(166)* Head 82(83) Webster 58(107) Carse 2-30
End of day 3: Australia 673 All out: Carey 137(217) Inglis 115(168) Starc 95(123) Woakes 110-3 Atkinson 155-3
End of day 4: England 272/4 Crawley 70(146) Pope 60(140) Duckett 54(112)
England 503/5 Declared: Brook 122(225) Stokes 95*(217) Hazlewood 2-68
End of day 5: Match Drawn Australia 159/6 6 runs short; Green 69(45) Carey 41(21)* Atkinson 3-40
Brook MOTM
1st test:
2nd test: Same XI; England win the toss and bat
England 276 All out: Bethell 84(94) Brook 76(121) Starc 4-46 Lyon 3-82
End of day 1: Australia 74/1 Konstas 38(61) Usman 19*(66)
End of day 2: Australia 392 All out Green 124(166) Usman 84(211) Webster 57(82) Bashir 103-4 Carse 17-2
End of day 3: England 388/4 Duckett 180(243) Crawley 93(144) Cummins 2-63
England 529 All out: Stokes 60(73) Carse 49(65)* Cummins 4-93 Webster 3-95
End of day 4: Australia 182/1 Inglis 95(148)* Khawaja 76(141)* Atkinson 1-42
Australia 384 All out, Inglis 123(177) Usman 121(235) Head 66(62) Atkinson 5-107 Stokes 3-101
England Win by 28 runs, Duckett MOTM
2nd test:
3rd Test: Same XI; England win the toss and bat
End of day 1: England 338 All out; Brook 73(95), Bethell 66(96) Atkinson 56(125) Hazlewood 5-86 Starc 46-3
End of day 2: Australia 227 All out; Green 74(138) Inglis 53(79) Stokes 53-3 Woakes 66-3
England 280 All out; Stokes 134(178) Brook 25(48) Smith 25(49) Cummins 4-59 Starc 2-49
End of day 3: Australia 49/1 Konstas 27(36)* Inglis 15(14)* Atkinson 1-16
End of day 4: Australia 347/6 Inglis 103(144) Green 62(139) Webster 57(108)* Head 54(98) Stokes 2-73
Australia 394-7 Webster 79(167)* Cummins 38(59) Bashir 112-3
Australia win, Series 1-1; Stokes MOTM
3rd test:
4th Test: Same XI; Australia win the toss and bat
End of day 1: Australia 334/4 ; Inglis 101(163), Green 91(143)* Webster 57(117)* Bashir 2-79
Australia 491 All out: Webster 141(242) Green 97(150) Bashir 3-120 Atkinson 3-166
End of day 2: England 136/4 Crawley 55(128) Duckett 30(78) Cummins 2-35
England 226 All out; Smith 35(83)* Brook 30(51) Lyon 3-35
End of day 3: Australia 166/3 Inglis 44(103) Green 43(115)* Head 36(53)* Woakes 1-31 Stokes 1-36
Australia 271/8 Declared Green 95(176) Head 46(62) Atkinson 4-77 Bashir 2-78
England 193 All out; Pope 72(124) Bethell 37(65) Lyon 4-68 Starc 4-53
Australia win, Series 2-1; Green MOTM
4th test:
5th Test:
England win the toss and bat; Same XI'S
End of day 1: England 326/8 Duckett 107(178) Crawley 89(143) Pope 66(106) Hazlewood 3-44 Lyon 3-103
England 339 All out; Cummins 2-64
Australia 269 All out; Head 122(149), Usman 47(71) Carey 41(43) Atkinson 5-89 Woakes 3-71
End of day 2: England 175/4 Pope 80(83)* Starc 2-73 Lyon 2-17
England 292 All out; Pope 89(93) Crawley 48(66) Stokes 32(66) Lyon 6-56
End of day 3: Australia 139/4 Green 49(54)* Inglis 39(44) Carse 1-21 Bashir 1-29
Australia 346 All out Green 122(193) Cummins 55(61) Starc 33(41) Stokes 3-61 Atkinson 3-92
England win by 16 runs; Pope MOTM; Series drawn 2-2
5th Test:
Attachments
Nintendo
Cricketer Of The Year
TLDR; Series Drawn
England
1.Duckett; 455 @45.5
2.Crawley; 482 @ 48.2
3.Pope; 397 @ 39.7
4.Bethell; Bethell 276 @27.6 (No idea who they would actually replace root with; Bethell seems to be the backup there most confident in)
5.Brook; 468 @ 46.8
6.Stokes; 486 @ 54
7.Smith; 168@ 21
8.Woakes 120 @15
9.Atkinson 183 @ 26.14
10.Carse 140 @17.5
11.Bashir 33 @6.6
Australia:
1. Khawaja 452 @45.2
2. Konstas; 168 @16.8
3. Inglis; 620 @62 (He has a worse rating, thought he was more likely to average sub 30 like marnus. Oops).
4.Green; 648 @64.8
5.Head; 415 @41.5
6.Webster; 401 @ 44.5
7.Carey; 314 @34.89
8. Cummins 17.89 @ 19.89
9. Starc 188 @28.68
10. Lyon 77 @15.4
11.Haze 42 @ 21