Ambrose v Murali v Steyn (rank in order)

[shortpitched713]

See @PlayerComparisons , this is how you compile a hierarchy conducting the least number of polls, while being easy enough to assemble.

So wanted to see where we think ATG seamers rank in comparison to ATG spinners, with the least amount of confounding factors ( yes, there's a huge Australia forum bias factor so chose Murali over Warne for this exercise ), so chose these 3, whose careers are in close sequence with one another and overlap.

 

[BazBall21]

Tempted to rate Ambrose over Murali as well but question marks against him in Asia

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Steyn >Murali >Ambrose

 

[Majestic]

Steyn slightly better than Ambrose.

Can't compare pacers with spinners. Murali's individual achievements obviously are absolutely GOAT level, even greater than Shane Warne. But his action has often raised questions of legitimacy in his bowling so it's tough really to compare him with other top tier ATG bowlers especially pacers.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Very tough one.

Very little between them, but Steyn is 3rd.

 

[subshakerz]

Steyn first. Terrific matchwinner across all conditions.

Between Ambrose and Murali it is tough. However, it is hard to ignore Murali's failures against the best bats of his time. Ambrose, on the other hand, was the best pacer of a pace-heavy era and was never really conquered the way Murali was.

In the end, if I am a captain picking a team for all conditions, I would prefer an Ambrose who can set the pace and control. I can't imagine Murali commanding the respect of an ATG batting lineup the way Ambrose steaming in would.

 

[Coronis]

Pretty impossible to compare spinners and pacers but I have Murali as practically equal 1st spinner of all time so I’ll put him first - Steyn is barely ahead of Ambrose for me but thats how it goes.

 

[subshakerz]

Pretty impossible to compare spinners and pacers but I have Murali as practically equal 1st spinner of all time so I’ll put him first - Steyn is barely ahead of Ambrose for me but thats how it goes.

Best way to compare is who would you select first in your XI, assuming the others bowlers are all average bowlers.

A first rate fast bowler will be more valuable than than a top of the tree spinner, generally across all conditions.

 

[BazBall21]

Looks like the Ambrose vs Steyn consensus might be changing. The great subshakerz has changed his mind.

 

[subshakerz]

Looks like the Ambrose vs Steyn consensus might be changing. The great subshakerz has changed his mind.

Yup I changed it late in the Ambrose vs. Steyn thread.

I critiqued Steyn for being too lose by ATG standards but then I had to rate him above Ambrose whom I can't say with confidence was proven in SC conditions which is an absolute must if you want to be top tier.

I see three top tier groups:

Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee - impeccable credentials
Imran, Steyn, Ambrose - awesome records with some gaps
Lillee, Trueman, Wasim - top of their time but somewhat unproven/lacking in certain conditions

 

[OverratedSanity]

Murali is one of the 4-5 names that I consider for the greatest bowler of all time question so he's first. Steyn a bit ahead of Ambrose.

 

[subshakerz]

Murali is one of the 4-5 names that I consider for the greatest bowler of all time question so he's first. Steyn a bit ahead of Ambrose.

I see Murali being completely neutralised against any ATG lineup he faces unless its a spinning wicket. Warne as well.

I see Ambrose and Steyn having a better chance of running through an ATG XI on their day though. Fast bowlers are just more deadly.

 

[Coronis]

I see Murali being completely neutralised against any ATG lineup he faces unless its a spinning wicket. Warne as well.

I see Ambrose and Steyn having a better chance of running through an ATG XI on their day though. Fast bowlers are just more deadly.

I’ve seen some bad takes on here, but this one takes the cake.

 

[subshakerz]

I’ve seen some bad takes on here, but this one takes the cake.

Why?

Let's say they are facing a top six of Hutton, Sutcliffe, Steve Smith, G. Pollock, Chappell and Border.

The wicket is unknown and the task is to run through that lineup. No way is Murali or Warne my first choice over Ambrose and Steyn. The latter have a much better history of running through the strongest lineups they faced.

 

[BazBall21]

Yup I changed it late in the Ambrose vs. Steyn thread.

I critiqued Steyn for being too lose by ATG standards but then I had to rate him above Ambrose whom I can't say with confidence was proven in SC conditions which is an absolute must if you want to be top tier.

I see three top tier groups:

Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee - impeccable credentials
Imran, Steyn, Ambrose - awesome records with some gaps
Lillee, Trueman, Wasim - top of their time but somewhat unproven/lacking in certain conditions

Yeah that's why I've recently considered Imran and Steyn over Lillee and Ambrose. Performances on classical slow flat Asian decks. Ambrose isn't any more proven on traditional Asian decks than Lillee.

 

[BazBall21]

Ambrose and Steyn over Murali is not an unorthodox take by any means. Their records against top batters is better but Murali does have some crazy performances in England/NZ.

 

[Coronis]

Why?

Let's say they are facing a top six of Hutton, Sutcliffe, Steve Smith, G. Pollock, Chappell and Border.

The wicket is unknown and the task is to run through that lineup. No way is Murali or Warne my first choice over Ambrose and Steyn. The latter have a much better history of running through the strongest lineups they faced.

Thats not what you said. You said Murali and Warne would be completely neutralised against an ATG lineup unless its a turner, which is frankly ridiculous.

Its like if I said Ambrose and Steyn would be completely neutralised against an ATG lineup unless its a green pitch.

 

[Slifer]

Excuse me but why do people keep going on and on over this Subcon bs? Thats all of three countries. And only two wouldve been available during Ambrose's career. Fwiw, in his limited time there Ambrose did just fine. What about England, Australia, NZ, WI, RSA, etc? And especially Australia. Quite a handful of pace bowlers have done well in Asia: Marshall, Steyn, Donald, Hadlee, Walsh, etc but very very few have done great down under; the true graveyard for non Aussie fast bowlers and spinners fwiw. And Ambrose dominated there. About the only(non Aussie) bowlers I can think of who did fine there are Hadlee, Akram and Bumrah. That's it. Ambrose was outstanding home and away. Steyn too but not to the extent as Sir Curtly and Murali yeah no comment.

 

[Coronis]

Excuse me but why do people keep going on and on over this Subcon bs? Thats all of three countries. And only two wouldve been available during Ambrose's career. Fwiw, in his limited time there Ambrose did just fine. What about England, Australia, NZ, WI, RSA, etc? And especially Australia. Quite a handful of pace bowlers have done well in Asia: Marshall, Steyn, Donald, Hadlee, Walsh, etc but very very few have done great down under; the true graveyard for non Aussie fast bowlers and spinners fwiw. And Ambrose dominated there. About the only(non Aussie) bowlers I can think of who did fine there are Hadlee, Akram and Bumrah. That's it. Ambrose was outstanding home and away. Steyn too but not to the extent as Sir Curtly and Murali yeah no comment.

Calling Hadlee’s performance here “fine” is major disrespect imo. Others I can think of who did pretty well here were Marshall, Holding and Bishop, amongst spinners iirc Laker has a really good record, but not too much apart from him.

 

[Slifer]

Calling Hadlee’s performance here “fine” is major disrespect imo. Others I can think of who did pretty well here were Marshall, Holding and Bishop, amongst spinners iirc Laker has a really good record, but not too much apart from him.

Don't get hung up over a simple adjective my friend. Doesn't change the fact that Amby was outstanding in Australia along with Hadlee and Bumrah and a handful of bowlers.

Ambrose has done better in Asia than Steyn has in Australia and England and both have played a similar sample size I'm all 3 locations.