No hopers who made it

[SillyCowCorner1]

Does Dilshan in ODIs count?

 

[Prince EWS]

Maybe even Watling. Flop as a Test opener, resurrected as a middle order keeper and vastly surpassed expectations.

 

[Immenso]

Craig White, has he been mentioned? Finding pace out of nowhere. Gee he was a valuable find for England during their Flintoff-less years. Not only allowed them to balance their team (especially in Asia) but his style of bowling was also exactly suited to the same conditions when they wanted two spinners. Although countered by the fact he was usually paired with Stewart as keeper and lower order bat when hs batting was not suited to those conditions in that position.

Andrew Hall of South Africa? Although probably not a no-hoper, not sure where I fit him in. In a team full of seam-bowling allrounders he still managed to get some moments, and they went to some extremes to try and fit him in (opening). Did they see him as an England touring specialist? A Safrican Thakur?

 

[thierry henry]

Mark Richardson

Now this is a good example of the "never would have expected him to play test cricket" variety as opposed to the "started off crap in test cricket" variety.

The irony being that Richardson was a teenage prodigy as a spinner - but he was completely washed as a cricketer by about 20 and was deep into his 20s before anyone took him at all seriously as a batsman.

 

[thierry henry]

Does Dilshan in ODIs count?

From my perspective (of not following him all that closely) he's a great example. He was pretty much this very meh middle order batsman for like a decade, then became something of an all-format star from about age 32/33 on.

 

[thierry henry]

Maybe Mitch Santner as a test player.

Although an almost decade long all-format player having a golden period, in his weakest format, is not off the scale. You could say he's had enough 'in-match practice' I guess.

Personally. I was always comfortable with Santner's role in that very settled and experienced NZ test team around the turn of the decade. While acknowledging that he and the second opener were the weakest links, but he had a role and he added balanced that enabled NZ to puruse their wagnerball tactics. E.g. they wouldn't have selected CdG without Santner, and you would have had Wagner bowling at different 'ball-agedness times' without CdG.

But now, maybe he is actually good in his own rights?

Funny to think this probably never happens if Macewell doesn't do his knee, right? I think Santner was pretty well discarded by 2023.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

From my perspective (of not following him all that closely) he's a great example. He was pretty much this very meh middle order batsman for like a decade, then became something of an all-format star from about age 32/33 on.

Yes he’s does fits the criteria of this thread. Didnt even knew who he was until he started to open the batting and that is where he blossomed

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Feel like Wagner is being a bit misrepresented here. He fits the thread in the sense of having a mediocre start to his test career, but he certainly didn't come out of nowhere to play test cricket. He was a highly-rated youngster in South Africa and was only 21 when he last played there so his struggles to crack top tier FC cricket I feel are a little exaggerated. Sure, maybe he would've continued to have a frustrating time over there but then isn't that a story we've heard a million times about obviously talented players? He immediately walked into FC cricket in NZ and there was quite a lot of hype around him during his qualification period.

The reason he was initially a bit of a disappointment at test level was because there was that hype around him in NZ. The perception of him as this gritty underdog making the most of limited talents is more about the unorthodox version of Wagner that emerged during the course of his test career - that came out of left field, but the man himself didn't.

I definitely would say his supposed good FC record upon arrival was more than a little misleading, there really was a vast gulf in quality between the proper FC tournament (which Wagner barely played as Cribb pointed out) and the 3 day stuff

Check out the record of someone like Phaphama Fojela for example. Took 3 day wickets pretty much for fun yet played a grand total of literally zero FC games in the 4 day 6 team structure when that existed

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Funny to think this probably never happens if Macewell doesn't do his knee, right? I think Santner was pretty well discarded by 2023.

Not sure about that. I think when Bracewell got injured Stead had finally realised that GP was a much better player. As it was Bangladesh he (Santner) then returned as the 3rd spinner.

 

[thierry henry]

Not sure about that. I think when Bracewell got injured Stead had finally realised that GP was a much better player. As it was Bangladesh he (Santner) then returned as the 3rd spinner.

Yeah but I think Macewell was in direct competition with Santner and had usurped him, and despite the protests from CW I don't think anything had changed for Stead to switch to Santner over Macewell (even purely H2H as bowlers)

 

[thierry henry]

I definitely would say his supposed good FC record upon arrival was more than a little misleading, there really was a vast gulf in quality between the proper FC tournament (which Wagner barely played as Cribb pointed out) and the 3 day stuff

That's not in dispute and it's definitely possible Wagner could've fizzled out in SA due to not being given enough of a crack at the proper FC stuff soon enough. I wasn't touting his FC record from SA, just saying that he was a fairly highly rated youngster and he made the decision to pack up and move to NZ very young, so we'll never really know whether he would've cracked it or not.

In terms of his NZ FC career, he pretty much came here guaranteed a FC position and almost immediately starred, so from an NZ perspective from ages 22-26 he was one of our best domestic bowlers. Definitely not a case of a guy coming out of nowhere to earn international honours - he came here as a youngster with a contract to play FC cricket and gunned it on the FC scene.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Herschelle Gibbs debuted in 1996 and prior to his first century in 1999, his test average was 21.23

 

[Daemon]

Tim David

 

[Shri]

Hasn't made it

 

[ataraxia]

Hasn't made it

Yeah he only strikes at 175 – it's simply not good enough.

 

[SteveNZ]

Maybe even Watling. Flop as a Test opener, resurrected as a middle order keeper and vastly surpassed expectations.

Good call. He might have been on his way to bigger things, his qualities as a person I think would have seen him work it out over time. I always felt like his debut Test, when he was on 60 and we were 90-0 when it rained chasing 200 odd v Pakistan, might have catapulted him to something bigger if he'd been allowed to. But equally, he might've nicked out soon after. But John Wright backed him as a keeper middle order bat and the rest is history.

 

[Prince EWS]

Good call. He might have been on his way to bigger things, his qualities as a person I think would have seen him work it out over time. I always felt like his debut Test, when he was on 60 and we were 90-0 when it rained chasing 200 odd v Pakistan, might have catapulted him to something bigger if he'd been allowed to. But equally, he might've nicked out soon after. But John Wright backed him as a keeper middle order bat and the rest is history.

Yeah I get the feeling he probably would've ended up successful as a Test opener it he had another extended go at that, but we'll never know, and it wouldn't have been absurd to never recall him at all at that point.

His selection as a wicket keeper was very unpopular here at the time too.

 

[trundler]

Azhar Ali used to bat 9 and below in junior cricket before he got a back injury and couldn't bowl anymore. He averaged 30 odd with the bat for many years before getting picked for tests. He was clearly an extremely limited batsman but made the most of what he had. Think he fits the bill perfectly.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

That's not in dispute and it's definitely possible Wagner could've fizzled out in SA due to not being given enough of a crack at the proper FC stuff soon enough. I wasn't touting his FC record from SA, just saying that he was a fairly highly rated youngster and he made the decision to pack up and move to NZ very young, so we'll never really know whether he would've cracked it or not.

In terms of his NZ FC career, he pretty much came here guaranteed a FC position and almost immediately starred, so from an NZ perspective from ages 22-26 he was one of our best domestic bowlers. Definitely not a case of a guy coming out of nowhere to earn international honours - he came here as a youngster with a contract to play FC cricket and gunned it on the FC scene.

Probably fair, I'm not familiar enough with his early days after moving to NZ to have an opinion either way but I definitely back your judgement on this. I was more referring to the statement I have occasionally heard (not form you here though) that he was some sort of absolute gun on the fringes of the South African national team before he left for NZ, which even if he was indeed regarded as promising simply isn't true

Well partly that and partly I just wanted to mention Fojela. If you looked solely at FC stats you would think the bloke was a gun but frankly from what I saw he bowled about 120ish and looked barely First Class standard

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Back on topic arguably Nathan Hauritz deserves a mention. A massive stretch to say he "made it" but his Test stats (albeit flattered by THAT Sydney Test against Pakistan) are not too bad.

Yet his FC stats were absolutely shite even by Australian spinner of the era standards outside of half a season after his Test career