Viv Richards vs Muttiah Muralitharan

[subshakerz]

He has adapted to many other countries. It’s just one or two more that he didn’t so I don’t think adaptability is a problem. Vic sucked in NZ and we aren’t going to equation his adaptability. But being bad against the best team is not a good look though so that should be taken into account.
Also by the same measure he can’t be top 10 bowler with that kind of record vs the best team.

On a similar note, people tend to overlook McGrath not being ATG vs SA who were the best batting he faced in his time. SA were nowhere near Aus batting line up.

Like I said, it was the two best lineups away he didn't do well against.

 

[Johan]

No one is breaking 800 EVER

if Jimmy had figured it out in like, 2006-7, Murali's record would likely be gone.

 

[ma1978]

Murali disqualified by performance in India

and Australia,

 

[reyrey]

if Jimmy had figured it out in like, 2006-7, Murali's record would likely be gone.

Good point about Jimmy. The England set up tried change his bowling action a year or 2 after his debut. Caused him issues, a loss of form and his place in the team. Eventually he went back to his old action.

Rough guess, but he potentially missed out on 20ish games cos of this.

 

[Johan]

Good point about Jimmy. The England set up tried change his bowling action a year or 2 after his debut. Caused him issues, a loss of form and his place in the team. Eventually he went back to his old action.

Rough guess, but he potentially missed out on 20ish games cos of this.

Yeah, I reckon if Jimmy had come of top class earlier than 2010, had he changed his action in middle of the 2000s decade, he would've gotten really, really close if not broken it.

 

[Johan]

Vic sucked in NZ and we aren’t going to equation his adaptability.

It was functionally 2 matches, doesn't really mean anything, Viv's far inferiors in Greenidge and Haynes dominated New Zealand, I don't doubt he'd have done the same had he gotten the opportunities

 

[Thala_0710]

Viv's far inferiors in Greenidge and Haynes dominated New Zealand, I don't doubt he'd have done the same had he gotten the opportunities

I get the low sample size point but this makes no sense though. All great players shouldn't struggle anywhere at all then because there would always be some of their inferiors making runs.

 

[Johan]

I get the low sample size point but this makes no sense though. All great players would never struggle anywhere at all because there would always be some of their inferiors making runs.

Great players struggling in countries is a metric that I use to determine weaknesses/vulnerabilities to specific types of bowling, for example Ponting's record in India and just his dismissals in India tell me he was vulnerable to fast turn, Clarke wasn't and scored heaps in India, Clarke was a far inferior batsman overall obviously but that shows us what weaknesses Ponting had, and it's a huge point in debates. Viv didn't have any issues with fast bowling (or any kind of bowling really) so I don't think he'd fail in New Zealand in the long term, he was a much better player of movement than Gordon and especially Desmond and that's what is threatening in New Zealand.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

It may happen but I do not think it will.

If Eng somehow produce a Rabada type destructive bowler, then it is possible.

Produce or poach

 

[Johan]

Produce or poach

are y'all really still mad Hadlee cuc.ked New Zealand to play for Nottinghamshire?

 

[Thala_0710]

Great players struggling in countries is a metric that I use to determine weaknesses/vulnerabilities to specific types of bowling, for example Ponting's record in India and just his dismissals in India tell me he was vulnerable to fast turn, Clarke wasn't and scored heaps in India, Clarke was a far inferior batsman overall obviously but that shows us what weaknesses Ponting had, and it's a huge point in debates. Viv didn't have any issues with fast bowling (or any kind of bowling really) so I don't think he'd fail in New Zealand in the long term, he was a much better player of movement than Gordon and especially Desmond and that's what is threatening in New Zealand.

But we can't solely rely on that to predict anything with near certainity. There are loads of such records, even with ATGs, which make little sense skill wise. Until one actually goes out and makes those runs on the field one can't be so sure of anything.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

FP wants Stokes and McCullum back

 

[Fuller Pilch]

are y'all really still mad Hadlee cuc.ked New Zealand to play for Nottinghamshire?

Of course not. It isn't as if Hadlee played for England

 

[Johan]

But we can't solely rely on that to predict anything with near certainity. There are loads of such records, even with ATGs, which make little sense skill wise. Until one actually goes out and makes those runs on the field one can't be so sure of anything.

when the sample size is low I can only make a prediction based on what's more probable, who said anything about certainty? I just think it's way more likely he'd succeed rather than tank, considering the Kiwi pitches are generally just a little Bouncier English pitches that get flat after one session, I don't think he'd struggle on them unless something illogical happens.

 

[Johan]

Of course not. It isn't as if Hadlee played for England

I don't believe you.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

FP wants Stokes and McCullum back

Not really.

I was thinking if Jofra had been fit and fulfilled his potential etc.

Funny to see that Southee is going to join McCullum and Jeetan Patel in the England coaching team though.

 

[Johan]

Not really.

I was thinking if Jofra had been fit and fulfilled his potential etc.

Such a Cricketing tragedy, he looked really promising in 2019 Ashes.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I don't believe you.

No, he developed his game by playing county cricket against many of the best players in the world in county cricket. That was good for many countries.

 

[Johan]

No, he developed his game by playing county cricket against many of the best players in the world in county cricket. That was good for many countries.

I was kind of pulling your leg with that.

 

[kyear2]

Viv better.
Murali greater.

I think that it's probably the other way round.

Yeah, the more I think about it, definitely the other way round.