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Botham vs Jadeja (batting)

Who is the better test batsman?

  • Total voters
    32
M

ma1978

International Regular
Line and Length said:
When comparing very good or even great players, I tend to avoid over-scrutiny of negatives (eg Botham v WI) and look at two major factors - impact and peak. At his peak, Botham had a far greater impact as a batsman than other all-rounders being compared to him.
I can understand the need to judge a player on his entire career, but there are many factors contributing to troughs in a career. Sadly Botham's troughs resemble more of a chasm late in his career.
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this is a very fair argument, and the right one for Botham. Much better than the others made thus far
 
A

Al Salvador

School Boy/Girl Captain
capt_Luffy said:
Dhoni also averages 5 runs more and scores handsomely everywhere. Don't think Botham was a better batsman honestly. Easier era Don't think works that well given Botham averages 29 without the weakest team of his Era, which would be a weak bowling attack in any.
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You can't remove his runs against india like that if you gonna rate kapil as ATVG bowler. One of the ton came after being 57-5. I will never think of removing runs against team led by bowler who's rated above Jason Gillespie as bowler

Dhoni didn't scored handsomely everywhere, he was walking wicket against bounce. Played in extremely high scoring era, I've never got this hype around Dhoni. Just no for me. I've watched him, he was average keeper and batsman at test level. Good player of spin though
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Hall of Fame Member
Al Salvador said:
You can't remove his runs against india like that if you gonna rate kapil as ATVG bowler. One of the ton came after being 57-5

Dhoni didn't scored handsomely everywhere, he was walking wicket against bounce. Played in extremely high scoring era, I've never got this hype around Dhoni. Just no for me. I've watched him, he was average keeper and batsman at test level. Good player of spin though
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I am not removing his runs against India at all. They were solid runs. I am just saying India were a shitty bowling unit by any era, and because his average falls much without them, era advantage doesn't works here for me. Also, don't think 1 lower ATVG and other Trundlers makes a team's bowling solid.

Dhoni scored in most countries just fine and averages almost 50 at home. Failed in Australia, but Botham was worse in India. I don't agree with your assessment of Dhoni in Tests. Feel it's an over correction stand for him being overrated from ODIs really. He was solid batsman better than most keepers with a 38 avg and a fine keeper quite good to spin.
 
A

Al Salvador

School Boy/Girl Captain
capt_Luffy said:
I am not removing his runs against India at all. They were solid runs. I am just saying India were a shitty bowling unit by any era, and because his average falls much without them, era advantage doesn't works here for me. Also, don't think 1 lower ATVG and other Trundlers makes a team's bowling solid.

Dhoni scored in most countries just fine and averages almost 50 at home. Failed in Australia, but Botham was worse in India. I don't agree with your assessment of Dhoni in Tests. Feel it's an over correction stand for him being overrated from ODIs really. He was solid batsman better than most keepers with a 38 avg and a fine keeper quite good to spin.
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Runs against any attack led by bowler better than ability and quality of Gillespie (as it's being said here) has to count for something, Dhoni was meh in wi as well. Overseas average of 32 odd in short career in batting era doesn't do enough for me. Yes Dhoni was good keeper to spin and batsman against spin. Just too average against pace bowling really both as keeper and batsman. Very overrated in odis as well even though he was very good there (I won't go too much detail there for now)
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Hall of Fame Member
Al Salvador said:
Runs against any attack led by bowler better than ability and quality of Gillespie (as it's being said here) has to count for something, Dhoni was meh in wi as well. Overseas average of 32 odd in short career in batting era doesn't do enough for me. Yes Dhoni was good keeper to spin and batsman against spin. Just too average against pace bowling really both as keeper and batsman. Very overrated in odis as well even though he was very good there (I won't go too much detail there for now)
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I am not removing his India record at all, just saying it neutralizes the era advantage. WI in Dhoni's days were pretty ****, so don't think it accounts for much. Beefy also averages 32 away but significantly worse at Home. I don't think Dhoni was average to pace as both really. It think he was solid. Nah, Dhoni is a top 5 ODI batsmen, top captain and keeper. Doesn't agree with it at all.
 
A

Al Salvador

School Boy/Girl Captain
capt_Luffy said:
I am not removing his India record at all, just saying it neutralizes the era advantage. WI in Dhoni's days were pretty ****, so don't think it accounts for much. Beefy also averages 32 away but significantly worse at Home. I don't think Dhoni was average to pace as both really. It think he was solid. Nah, Dhoni is a top 5 ODI batsmen, top captain and keeper. Doesn't agree with it at all.
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Wi gave tough pitches to India, dhoni's poor record there should absolutely count.
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

Request Your Custom Title Now!
capt_Luffy said:
I am not removing his runs against India at all. They were solid runs. I am just saying India were a shitty bowling unit by any era, and because his average falls much without them, era advantage doesn't works here for me. Also, don't think 1 lower ATVG and other Trundlers makes a team's bowling solid.

Dhoni scored in most countries just fine and averages almost 50 at home. Failed in Australia, but Botham was worse in India. I don't agree with your assessment of Dhoni in Tests. Feel it's an over correction stand for him being overrated from ODIs really. He was solid batsman better than most keepers with a 38 avg and a fine keeper quite good to spin.
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Don't you rate Botham better than Jadeja?
 
sayon basak

sayon basak

International Coach
subshakerz said:
Lol then what were we debating over? Why not just state your own reasons for having Botham ahead.
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Let me tell you exactly why you guys were debating.

capt_Luffy thinks it is close. But you, at first, voted that it's not close. You changed your vote well after the discussion/debate/yapping started. My best guess is luffy didn't really keep tracks of the votes.
 
Last edited:
R

Rob Wesley

U19 Debutant
sayon basak said:
Let me tell you exactly why you guys were debating.

capt_Luffy thinks it close. But you, at first, voted that it's not close. You changed your vote well after the discussion/debate/yapping started. My best guess is luffy didn't really keep tracks of the votes.
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I can tell a more accurate reason why they were debating. They have got nothing better to do so they thought of wasting a day this way. :happy:
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

Request Your Custom Title Now!
sayon basak said:
Let me tell you exactly why you guys were debating.

capt_Luffy thinks it is close. But you, at first, voted that it's not close. You changed your vote well after the discussion/debate/yapping started. My best guess is luffy didn't really keep tracks of the votes.
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If I thought Luffy voted Botham I wouldn't think it worth debating him since we wouldn't differ that much.
 
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