Rahul Dravid vs Kevin Pietersen (talent)

[Johan]

For example, batting averages accross countries since 2021

2022

England: 29.45
Australia: 28.76

2023

England: 33.04
Australia: 30.34

2024

England: 28.77
Australia: 24.91

only one year does the batting output goes above 30, and for reference even that is about the same as India's batting average in the 1980s, and nobody calls 80s India disgraceful or roads.

Only two years seem to be uber flat, 2025 and 2023, both having hot summers, especially the prior. Bazball pitches are definitely good for batting but they'd be pretty balanced with conventional English weather and environment, 2025 has been an absurdly hot summer and that shows with the 38 batting average in this series.

Anyway, it doesn't matter, Ma bringing up Root is a strawman

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Tbf Eng was pretty bowler friendly for pre Bazball. Joe probably deserved a few flatties.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Tbf Eng was pretty bowler friendly for pre Bazball.

2018 or so is generally considered the tipping point of when pitches became more bowler friendly right? And pitches in the 2022-current Bazball era is when they flattened out in England.

I wonder what Root's numbers in England are in these years.



Oh

 

[PlayerComparisons]

I think it was bowler friendly in Eng and SA before that too but could be wrong. Like that series when Kohli averaged 15 or that series when Dravid averaged 70

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Bowling attacks were worse back then though

 

[Johan]

actually the transformation in England came in around 2017, the averages in 2017 are lower than the averages in 2020, so if 2020 counts then 2017 has to as well, and his average from 2017-2021 in England was 46.30 and run output was at 43.78. Not bad for a pre prime Batsman going through a terrible slump induced by being a part of a team falling apart, captaining when he wasn't cut for the role and batting out of position at 3 often.


The overall average in England from 2017 and 2021 was 26.70, so he did pretty well imo

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Runs per wicket (2013-2016)

SA: 32.77
Aus: 37.11
Ind: 31.47
NZ: 34.27
SL: 30.81
WI: 31.21
Eng: 32.49
UAE: 37.51

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Runs per wicket (2023-2025)

Pak: 30.41
Aus: 27.59
Ind: 28.40
NZ: 31.93
SA: 26.29
SL: 36.87
Eng: 35.23
WI: 23.61

 

[Johan]

Damn England lowest in the SENA, even below SA hmmm

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Runs per wicket (2017-2021)

SA: 26.79
Aus: 32.40
NZ: 34.71
Ind: 29.80
SL: 32.42
WI: 25.51
Eng: 28.45

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Runs per wicket (2003 -2010)

Aus: 36.46
SA: 32.91
WI: 37.24
SL: 34.42
Eng: 34.09
Pak: 39.48
Ind: 38.85
NZ: 34.11

This must have been a terrible era to watch

 

[subshakerz]

.

don't be dishonest, you know this series is not in India, is unusually flat due to the hottest summer in England since 1920s. What about the pitches in Australia in the BGT? or 2021 Ashes?

England has been flat since Stokes became captain

 

[ma1978]

.
England has been flat since Stokes became captain

root has scored on some of the flattest pitches ever in England and Pakistan. Let’s see how he does in Australia or South Africa against current attacks

 

[subshakerz]

Four factors why the batting average has gone down:
- Swing friendly ball with better seam
- Sporting pitches
- Better bowling quality
- Worse batting techniques

It's hard to say which has been the biggest factor

 

[Coronis]

Crazy that Australia is down near the bottom, historically has always been a good place to bat.

 

[Prince EWS]

Matches up very well with KP imo. AB de villiers could do absurd things and was an all round incredibly talented player at all facets of the game, so I can see why you could make the case he was easily more talented than Dravid.

KP nah. This is just attacking bias at play nothing else. He was a better ball striker that's all, Dravid was way more talented at plenty more things.

Pietersen wasn't exactly an early blooming prodigy either. I know there were quota and personality issues but they tried to make him into a bowling allrounder in domestic cricket ffs.

Where talent ends and development starts is hard to define let alone measure but I'd be going de Villiers > Dravid > Pietersen on this metric.

 

[Thala_0710]

Four factors why the batting average has gone down:
- Swing friendly ball with better seam
- Sporting pitches
- Better bowling quality
- Worse batting techniques

It's hard to say which has been the biggest factor

The pitches and the ball... The techniques point is overplayed

 

[subshakerz]

The pitches and the ball... The techniques point is overplayed

Is it. How many bats are capable today of grinding a tough swinging spell compared to earlier eras?

 

[Thala_0710]

Is it. How many bats are capable today of grinding a tough swinging spell compared to earlier eras?

Gill and Rahul showed just that yesterday after 0/2 in the first over

 

[subshakerz]

Gill and Rahul showed just that yesterday after 0/2 in the first over

Now imagine they are facing Donald and Pollock.