Scyld Berry 30 greatest test fast bowlers

[Coronis]

This isn't going to be a popular answer, but yeah.

Top 10 definitely, and this isn't my opinion, but no one ranked him when he played or even well after his retirement as highly as he's rated here, where he's generally around 3rd.

The first tip off is that he literally never makes any all time teams. Even from layers of his era, he's always missing. And it seems he was rated more highly as an all rounder than as a bowler, and even then behind Imran and Botham.

I've gone though a ton of lists, articles, interviews, a lot of reading, asked former players. From his era alone he's behind Marshall and Lillee, even from the subsequent era his trails behind Ambrose, McGrath and Wasim.

I can say for sure, but it could be a little like Sunny where he's seen as a "fair weather" operator, and that's reflected a little in the comments for this article.

A few other reasons have popped up, but not from enough sources to definitively make any assumptions.

Again for me he's still 3rd, but definely not in the same tier as the top 2 and not in the GOAT debate, that for me is between the aforementioned two, if you want to include Barnes and possibly for some, the two spinners.

Which former players did you ask about Richard Hadlee?

 

[kyear2]

He's planning to write a book himself on the 50 greatest bowlers of all time. I asked him about it and he said he wouldn't be considering this list at all there and has some really poor takes.

Yeah, he's been talking about setting up the platform to write the bowlers book, even mentioned a shortlist for the top 10, people he's planning to interview.

 

[Thala_0710]

I don’t need to hear Ashwin after his retirement thanks.

You really should

Just like answered general questions through email or some other format I presume?

Yeah and a bit about his earlier book on the top 50 batters

 

[Coronis]

Yeah, he's been talking about setting up the platform to write the bowlers book, even mentioned a shortlist for the top 10, people he's planning to interview.

I mean, unless his list and book were widely derided, that always had to be the plan right. (still haven’t read the book or seen the list, but its been giving successful vibes)

 

[subshakerz]

This isn't going to be a popular answer, but yeah.

Top 10 definitely, and this isn't my opinion, but no one ranked him when he played or even well after his retirement as highly as he's rated here, where he's generally around 3rd.

The first tip off is that he literally never makes any all time teams. Even from layers of his era, he's always missing. And it seems he was rated more highly as an all rounder than as a bowler, and even then behind Imran and Botham.

I've gone though a ton of lists, articles, interviews, a lot of reading, asked former players. From his era alone he's behind Marshall and Lillee, even from the subsequent era his trails behind Ambrose, McGrath and Wasim.

I can say for sure, but it could be a little like Sunny where he's seen as a "fair weather" operator, and that's reflected a little in the comments for this article.

Let's keep it real, if Hadlee was English or Australian, he would have been hailed as the greatest pacer ever. He wasn't given his full due because he was from NZ.

Again for me he's still 3rd, but definely not in the same tier as the top 2 and not in the GOAT debate, that for me is between the aforementioned two, if you want to include Barnes and possibly for some, the two spinners.

Here is you just a short while ago saying Hadlee is in the same tier as McGrath and Marshall.

There's a couple things about Hadlee though that just has him a touch lower for me. As I said, still same tier though.

 

[kyear2]

Scyld Berry also did his 10 best cricketers in the last 40 years list (in 2017), on his 40th anniversary of covering the sport since 1977:
1. Viv Richards
2. Imran Khan
3. Shane Warne
4. Malcolm Marshall
5. Ian Botham
6. Sachin Tendulkar
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Jacques Kallis
9. Brian Lara
10. Wasim Akram

Whilst maybe not as bad as his bowlers list, this one isn't great either

Not great, but as someone else mentioned, definitely less offensive.

 

[Thala_0710]

Not great, but as someone else mentioned, definitely less offensive.

See the full 40, it gets worse

 

[Coronis]

Let's keep it real, if Hadlee was English or Australian, he would have been hailed as the greatest pacer ever. He wasn't given his full due because he was from NZ.

Woulda been cool for us if he was Aussie. Goodbye to that mid 80’s slump. Maybe old Greg and Dennis stick around a bit more.

 

[ma1978]

Which former players did you ask about Richard Hadlee?

I've also discussed Hadlee with a couple of friends who were his contemporaries (won't name names but one was a Pakistani test cricketer and the other England A) and they each believed he was the best bowler of the era. Impossible to get away, hostility and Mcgrath like accuracy. I think he's underrated because he's from NZ and not as large as life as Imran or Botham or from the larger than life Windies team.

 

[Thala_0710]

Woulda been cool for us if he was Aussie. Goodbye to that mid 80’s slump. Maybe old Greg and Dennis stick around a bit more.

Give my current Ind team Hadlee alongside Bumrah and we'd win everything

 

[kyear2]

the Johnson and Starc takes make me think he was taking a piss.

not really sure how Larwood is better than Holding....

Alll of these as well.

 

[Johan]

give England Lillee- oh wait, we don't select 130kmph trundlers for overseas games anymore.

 

[kyear2]

Garner can't be that low.

That bothered me less tbh.

Not that low, but should be lower than some have been ranking him of late.

 

[kyear2]

don't think he'd make my top 10 cricketers either and I have no quarrel with him

Same

 

[Coronis]

I've also discussed Hadlee with a couple of friends who were his contemporaries (won't name names but one was a Pakistani test cricketer and the other England A) and they each believed he was the best bowler of the era. Impossible to get away, hostility and Mcgrath like accuracy. I think he's underrated because he's from NZ and not as large as life as Imran or Botham or from the larger than life Windies team.

Name names c’mon, so we can call them out.

Good to see some respect on his name.

 

[kyear2]

Well yes of course, but they're wrong.

It's not just historians, but contemporary journalists and players as well.

I didn't see the majority of his career and as such it would be a somewhat giant assumption for me to say that all 3 constituencies were contemporaneously and stunningly wrong.. .

All 3 mind you.

 

[kyear2]

There are not 15 better test seamers than Hadlee no matter how you spin it.

I definitely agree not 15.

That's ridiculous

 

[kyear2]

Which former players did you ask about Richard Hadlee?

Wouldn't answer that without their permissions, and haven't spoken to them recently.

 

[kyear2]

Let's keep it real, if Hadlee was English or Australian, he would have been hailed as the greatest pacer ever. He wasn't given his full due because he was from NZ.



Here is you just a short while ago saying Hadlee is in the same tier as McGrath and Marshall.

That would be true if it were just writers, but the players don't rate Hadlee that highly either.

And Wasim was from Pakistan and he's also highly rated, Steyn is from South Africa.

It's more to it than that.

Yes, and I've read more, listened more and realised it's primarily an opinion we have here.

You've also expressed similar sentiments and it made sense. Plus I've always had a gap between him and McGrath. I don't think they're equals as some do, never have.

 

[Johan]

Let's keep it real, if Hadlee was English or Australian, he would have been hailed as the greatest pacer ever. He wasn't given his full due because he was from NZ.

Send him to India or Pakistan and he'd probably get declared a deity and have places of worship for him