Sunil Gavaskar vs Ian Botham

[subshakerz]

Kohli until 2020 would have been considered better than Root too... But look how that turned out

Root hasn't retired yet so we don't know where he will end up.

If you agree Botham for majority of his career would be rated ahead of Anderson, him being rated slightly behind overall shouldn't be considered problematic.

 

[Johan]

why would Botham be rated above Anderson in 1987? 10 year career, average almost 28 already and so forth.

 

[Thala_0710]

Root hasn't retired yet so we don't know where he will end up.

If you agree Botham for majority of his career would be rated ahead of Anderson, him being rated slightly behind overall shouldn't be considered problematic.

I don't think even in 87 he'd be ahead of Anderson, but he'd be closer to him than Broad. By the end, he's definitely closer to Broad

 

[Thala_0710]

Broad over Botham as purely bowlers is certainly arguable at the test level imo

 

[Johan]

Ian Botham's average and fifers at end of every year

1977: 20.20 (2)
1978: 18.46 (8)
1979: 19.27 (12)
1980: 20.21 (14)
1981: 21.75 (18)
1982: 24.53 (20)
1983: 24.82 (20)
1984: 26.25 (24)
1985: 26.37 (25)
1986: 27.05 (27)
1987: 27.86 (27)

Initial retirements

 

[subshakerz]

Ian Botham's average and fifers at end of every year

1977: 20.20 (2)
1978: 18.46 (8)
1979: 19.27 (12)
1980: 20.21 (14)
1981: 21.75 (18)
1982: 24.53 (20)
1983: 24.82 (20)
1984: 26.25 (24)
1985: 26.37 (25)
1986: 27.05 (27)
1987: 27.86 (27)

Initial retirements

First half of Bothams career is over 200 wickets@23 with a WPM well over 4. Better than Anderson in his peak. Took more fifers and tenfers than Anderson relative to career also.

Folks here just aren't used to Botham being praised as a bowler much.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I voted Botham because Luffy voted Miandad>May and I am a very petty person.

Actually I genuinely changed my stance on it.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Just a reminder, Botham until 1987 would have been considered a better bowler than Anderson.

It's only because of his historically bad last 14 tests that he gets downgraded below.

Umm..... He won't be imho.

 

[subshakerz]

why would Botham be rated above Anderson in 1987? 10 year career, average almost 28 already and so forth.

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[Johan]

that's where he had his final Rib injury right

 

[Thala_0710]

First half of Bothams career is over 200 wickets@23 with a WPM well over 4. Better than Anderson in his peak. Took more fifers and tenfers than Anderson relative to career also.

Folks here just aren't used to Botham being praised as a bowler much.

Anderson at his absolute peak from 2014-22 was 335 wkts @21.58

 

[subshakerz]

Umm..... He won't be imho.

We can debate it but it's pretty clear his ceiling was higher than Anderson for a fairly long period. Around half his career.

 

[subshakerz]

that's where he had his final Rib injury right

Basically around his last hurrah Ashes in Aus 86.

 

[capt_Luffy]

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Yeah, would have Anderson quite ahead. Probs same tier or the one just below, but his decline pushes him further down

 

[subshakerz]

Anderson at his absolute peak from 2014-22 was 335 wkts @21.58

That's close. Wicket volume and match impact would still go with Botham. And again that leaves around 15 years of Anderson's careers.

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah, would have Anderson quite ahead. Probs same tier or the one just below, but his decline pushes him further down

So if you have Anderson same tier with Botham then, I argue the horrible last 14 tests only takes him slightly below. It's just logical, you can't downgrade someone so massively for that small a fraction of their career.

 

[Thala_0710]

Broad also bowled on much flatter wickets than Beefy

 

[Thala_0710]

For reference, Botham has a bowling match factor of 1.00, Broad is at 1.13, Anderson at 1.19

 

[capt_Luffy]

So if you have Anderson same tier with Botham then, I argue the horrible last 14 tests only takes him slightly below. It's just logical, you can't downgrade someone so massively for that small a fraction of their career.

Ummm..... I don't. I agreed he likely will be the tier below.

 

[subshakerz]

For reference, Botham has a bowling match factor of 1.00, Broad is at 1.13, Anderson at 1.19

Botham and Broad to me are pretty similar level bowling-wise. I just dont have Anderson that far ahead. They are near him.