Brian lara vs steve smith

[Johan]

The perception of him as one was outside just that innings.

The perception of him was someone with perfect technique and one of the best strokemakers in the game who could effortlessly switch between the two.

 

[subshakerz]

The perception of him was someone with perfect technique and one of the best strokemakers in the game who could effortlessly switch between the two.

But generally slow.

 

[Johan]

But generally slow.

like everyone else at the time, by choice.

 

[subshakerz]

like everyone else at the time, by choice.

Which wouldn't be the case for him to have his rep as a conservative bat.

 

[Johan]

Which wouldn't be the case for him to have his rep as a conservative bat.

You can be a conservative bat by choice

 

[subshakerz]

You can be a conservative bat by choice

Whether it's by choice is somewhat irrelevant. That is how he generally played.

My bottomline for batting top tier was a dominant bat. He wasn't no matter how you want to finagle it.

 

[Johan]

Whether it's by choice is somewhat irrelevant. That is how he generally played.

My bottomline for batting top tier was a dominant bat. He wasn't no matter how you want to finagle it.

Yeah, but being a conservative bat by choice isn't a problem, and that was my point, both of you are enforcing a bazball esque standard on ATG bats which is kind of weird.

 

[DrWolverine]

"Hutton’s sedate progress throughout this innings – his strike-rate was 42 runs per 100 balls – typecast him as a cautious player."

- commentary on his 364.

Were Hobbs & Sutcliffe defensive batsmen as well?

 

[Johan]

Were Hobbs & Sutcliffe defensive batsmen as well?

Sutcliffe was, Hobbs wasn't

 

[DrWolverine]

Hutton. Sunny. Sutcliffe.
3 of the 4 best openers had a defensive style
The 5th best was an ultra defensive batsman as well.

 

[Johan]

openers don't bat quick, only Hobbs is the exception.

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah, but being a conservative bat by choice isn't a problem, and that was my point, both of you are enforcing a bazball esque standard on ATG bats which is kind of weird.

It's not a Bazball level of hitting. It's acceleration when set and imposing yourself on the opposition which give a psychological edge and creates intimidation, leading to mistakes, etc.

So I am concerned with how he normally plays, not whether he had the ability to accelerate in certain circumstances. Even Kallis could accelerate but that wasn't how he generally played against teams by choice.

Dominating should be a standard not an option.

 

[subshakerz]

openers don't bat quick, only Hobbs is the exception.

Which is one reason he deserves to be in the top tier.

And several openers before the 2000s did bat quicker once the new ball was worn off, Like Greenidge.

 

[subshakerz]

Hutton. Sunny. Sutcliffe.
3 of the 4 best openers had a defensive style
The 5th best was an ultra defensive batsman as well.

Yes. I just argue for the best of the best ever I was them to be as complete as possible, and that means generally aggressive.

 

[Johan]

It's not a Bazball level of hitting. It's acceleration when set and imposing yourself on the opposition which give a psychological edge and creates intimidation, leading to mistakes, etc.

So I am concerned with how he normally plays, not whether he had the ability to accelerate in certain circumstances. Even Kallis could accelerate but that wasn't how he generally played against teams by choice.

Dominating should be a standard not an option.

Hutton being immovable while the rest of the team was falling was supremely mentally damaging for the bowlers, Ask Sonny Ramadhin, Kallis is critiqued because many times he seemed to play oblivious to the match standard and not because he was simply slow, Hutton was a true professional and as obsessed with winning as any Batsmen ever, and therefore, always played to the match situation which is pivotal.

as Compton said, Hutton didn't always want to make strokes but when he did, he was one of the best ever at it, that just tells me that Hutton's batting was like everything else about him, dependent on the match situation and fixated on fixing practical problems, rather than focusing on hypotheticals.

Plus, you cannot put such a standard, with all due respect you are not a Cricketer, let Hutton decide when it's better to be a defensive batsman and when it's better to be a strokemaker, he definitely knows it better.

 

[Johan]

Which is one reason he deserves to be in the top tier.

And several openers before the 2000s did bat quicker once the new ball was worn off, Like Greenidge.

1. The New ball lasts longer on softer English wickets

2. Greenidge is sub Gooch

 

[DrWolverine]

This top order would put everyone to sleep
Hutton
Gavaskar
Barrington
Kallis
Flower
Border

 

[subshakerz]

1. The New ball lasts longer on softer English wickets

2. Greenidge is sub Gooch

1. Ok but he has to accelerate at some point. Hutton has his reputation for a reason. His peers saw him as dour by the standards of his time.

2. Ok another English tiebreaker for Gooch this time.

 

[subshakerz]

Hutton being immovable while the rest of the team was falling was supremely mentally damaging for the bowlers.

At some point opposition should be wary of the immovable object becoming the unstoppable force.

Plus, you cannot put such a standard, with all due respect you are not a Cricketer, let Hutton decide when it's better to be a defensive batsman and when it's better to be a strokemaker, he definitely knows it better.

No I can set that standard because it's my ranking and I make my own assessments watching cricket and I want my top bats to have the opposition on the backfoot.

 

[Johan]

1. Ok but he has to accelerate at some point. Hutton has his reputation for a reason. His peers saw him as dour by the standards of his time.

2. Ok another English tiebreaker for Gooch this time.

1. He accelerated when he wanted to, his peers agreed to that.

2. Yeah it's just because he's English, nothing to do with having compareable or greater output while having to face the greatest bowling attack ever assembled for 28% of your opening innings.