Shane Warne vs Wasim Akram

[Johan]

Wait how's it fine if you suck at home

most of these are one off matches, like one game in 1994, two where he bowled 70 overs in 1998, 2002 is where he got three matches and did reasonably well considering how flat the wickets were (Pollock was still young and went for 39), McGrath has the second highest average in the series and second most wickets, only pacer to find any success.

2006 series is a failiure, but I kinda interpeted it constant failiure in serieses against Saffers at home.

 

[OverratedSanity]

West Indies in the early 90s clearly has inferior output to Australia and India, it's closer to England's than it is to India's or Australia's

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

These numbers say India was the best batting lineup of the early 90s, ahead of Australia. I'm sorry, but I'm just going to say it's a dumb stat then because everyone knows that's wrong.

Akram also played two series vs the Windies in the 80s and averaged 25.

 

[OverratedSanity]

most of these are one off matches, like one game in 1994, two where he bowled 70 overs in 1998, 2002 is where he got three matches and did reasonably well considering how flat the wickets were (Pollock was still young and went for 39), McGrath has the second highest average in the series and second most wickets, only pacer to find any success.

2006 series is a failiure, but I kinda interpeted it constant failiure in serieses against Saffers at home.

Holy excuses.

You can have mcgrath as the best ever without trying to erase any minor flaw from his record you know. 3 wickets a game against one of the strongest teams you faced is pretty mediocre and you wouldn't give this much benefit of the doubt to a cricketer you already had decided to rate lower.

 

[Johan]

These numbers say India was the best batting lineup of the early 90s, ahead of Australia. I'm sorry, but I'm just going to say it's a dumb stat then because everyone knows that's wrong.

Akram also played two tests vs the Windies in the 80s and averaged 25.

fair, on taking out Sri Lanka

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Yeah his record against 80s Windies is good, I should probably add it in.

 

[Johan]

Holy excuses.

You can have mcgrath as the best ever without trying to erase any minor flaw from his record you know. 3 wickets a game against one of the strongest teams you faced is pretty mediocre and you wouldn't give this much benefit of the doubt to a cricketer you already had decided to rate lower.

You're overreacting

I got McGrath behind Marshall for this exact reason (not that destructive against the strongest of battings), I don't think it's as damning as it sounded earlier tho.

 

[kyear2]

I have McGrath as my third best fast bowler but it is very obvious that McGrath has holes in his record.

1. Against the second best team of his era, his record is just mediocre.
17 Tests. 57 wkts @ 27.3 and 2 5-Fers.

2. His record in SL & Pak
in SL : 4 Tests. 10 wickets @ 29
in Pak : 5 Tests. 19 wickets @ 31

3. Just one 5-Fer in 17 Tests in Asia

Somehow this is blatantly forgotten.

There's literally one bowler that had the all round record that Maco had, the skill set that Maco had, that adaptability that Maco had. He could go from enforcer to swing merchant to bowling cutters in a spell. He's one of the few, even among the all time greats that could conventionally swing it both ways.

McGrath beats him on longevity, that's it.

 

[Johan]

Yeah

I reckon what pushes Marshall ahead of McGrath was his ability to rip apart any batting on any lineup in any condition

 

[kyear2]

Top 3 bowler imo

No doubt

 

[Thala_0710]

Somehow this is blatantly forgotten.

There's literally one bowler that had the all round record that Maco had, the skill set that Maco had, that adaptability that Maco had. He could go from enforcer to swing merchant to bowling cutters in a spell. He's one of the few, even among the all time greats that could conventionally swing it both ways.

McGrath beats him on longevity, that's it.

This is why I have Marshall above Mcgrath. But Mcgrath doesn't have just longevity, his record against the best batsmen of his era and against top/upper middle order batters in general is the best ever imo

 

[kyear2]

might put Warne over Steyn tho

I wouldn't go that far either, but it's arguable.

I have 5 pacer ahead of him.

 

[Johan]

I wouldn't go that far either, but it's arguable.

I have 5 pacer ahead of him.

I meant as a Cricketer, Warne is probably slightly inferior on quality but bowls more, is less injury prone and can bat a bit as well.

 

[govinda indian fan]

Warne. Before coming to this fourm thought wasim was just second to Marshall but now think he is kinda overrated

 

[govinda indian fan]

Somehow this is blatantly forgotten.

There's literally one bowler that had the all round record that Maco had, the skill set that Maco had, that adaptability that Maco had. He could go from enforcer to swing merchant to bowling cutters in a spell. He's one of the few, even among the all time greats that could conventionally swing it both ways.

McGrath beats him on longevity, that's it.

No brainer
Marshall
Mcgarth
Hadlee
Ambrose
Styen
Imo my top five

 

[kyear2]

This is why I have Marshall above Mcgrath. But Mcgrath doesn't have just longevity, his record against the best batsmen of his era and against top/upper middle order batters in general is the best ever imo

Both of them have basically identical numbers vs top order batsmen and quality of wickets. Actually it's basically just those two and Ambrose (possibly Davidson as well, could be wrong though) that's consistently up there.

 

[kyear2]

I meant as a Cricketer, Warne is probably slightly inferior on quality but bowls more, is less injury prone and can bat a bit as well.

What's you top 10?

 

[sayon basak]

No brainer
Marshall
Mcgarth
Hadlee
Ambrose
Styen
Imo my top five

Ditto!

 

[kyear2]

No brainer
Marshall
Mcgarth
Hadlee
Ambrose
Styen
Imo my top five

I have Steyn ahead of Ambrose, but yeah, that's basically it.

 

[Johan]

What's you top 10?

Bowlers?

1. Malcolm Marshall
2. Glenn McGrath
3. Richard Hadlee
4. Sydney Barnes
5. Curtly Ambrose
6. Dale Steyn/Shane Warne
7. Dale Steyn/Shane Warne
8. Imran Khan
9. Muttiah Muralidharan
10. Dennis Lillee or Fred Trueman, depends on mood.

 

[sayon basak]

Bowlers?

1. Malcolm Marshall
2. Glenn McGrath
3. Richard Hadlee
4. Sydney Barnes
5. Curtly Ambrose
6. Dale Steyn/Shane Warne
7. Dale Steyn/Shane Warne
8. Imran Khan
9. Muttiah Muralidharan
10. Dennis Lillee or Fred Trueman, depends on mood.

Warne being 2/3 spots ahead of Murali is just wrong.

 

[kyear2]

Bowlers?

1. Malcolm Marshall
2. Glenn McGrath
3. Richard Hadlee
4. Sydney Barnes
5. Curtly Ambrose
6. Dale Steyn/Shane Warne
7. Dale Steyn/Shane Warne
8. Imran Khan
9. Muttiah Muralidharan
10. Dennis Lillee or Fred Trueman, depends on mood.

No, top 10 players in general.

And fair list, I don't include Barnes and I have Murali over Imran, but not too dissimilar.