Hayden v Chanderpaul

[BazBall21]

Opener v no5 is pretty hard. Said on a different discussion thread today that I believe Gary Kirsten was capable of a fairly similar career to Chanderpaul if he batted in the same position in similar conditions/fixtures. He had the remorseless grinding gene, was good enough v spin and always did well when he didn't open.

 

[capt_Luffy]

that's not really an excuse, Cook has higher output than him and has more quality output, and that's while he is opening against dukes in England while Shiv played at number 5 and 6 on slow, dead Windies pitches of 2000s...

honestly, I'm legit struggling to get Shiv over Cook.

Shiv played much longer and I think was a better player of pace.

 

[BazBall21]

Probably would. But Cook seemed burnt out really quickly (in terms of years obvs, I still get baffled he played 145 Tests IIRC)

I think opening in 161 tests in just 12 years probably wore him out. Throw in a very tough set of conditions/opposition in the final 22 months and it was a perfect storm to finish him off. With his physical fitness and obsession with batting, I think it's conceivable he would have gone on a lot longer in Chanderpaul's games and batting position.

 

[Johan]

Shiv played much longer and I think was a better player of pace.

I don't really think there's a basis for that is there? he was just as hopeless in South Africa and even more hopeless in Australia. but again, even counting your points, the case for Cook is way stronger.

Cook

• ATG series performance in Australia leading to an away Ashes win in 25 years.
• ATG performance in India leading to a series win in India after decades.
• Opened, faced fresher pacers.
• Played against dukes in England, combine with point 3 and that's a big factor.

Chanderpaul

• Longevity

I'm telling you, the case for Shiv just isn't all that, don't waste your time on this selfish sack of ****.

 

[BazBall21]

Kirsten or Chanderpaul @Johan

 

[capt_Luffy]

As a Kirsten fan, I will respect you if you replied Kirsten.

 

[BazBall21]

I think he will

 

[Johan]

Kirsten or Chanderpaul @Johan

even imo, I think I might legit go Kirsten lol, I think Chanderpaul is more compareable to a low 40s opening bat honestly with decent longevity

 

[kyear2]

It is a little sad that we have not had a true ATG opener play for almost 40 years now. Perhaps Jaiswal might buck that trend. Then again, perhaps not.

He has a good a chance as any.

He's talented and had the ability to accelerate the innings as needed.

 

[Johan]

@Coronis @kyear2 you guys have Hayden over Gooch?

 

[PlayerComparisons]

@Coronis @kyear2 you guys have Hayden over Gooch?

Most people do

Better Test opener, Hayden or Gooch?

Think it’s pretty viable to say a similar career may have happened to Hayden if he had to bat in England, Gooch didn’t do great in Australia either but better there than Hayden in England. Like to bump Gooch up for his ability against quality attacks but can only go so far when considering his...

www.cricketweb.net

 

[Johan]

Most people do

Better Test opener, Hayden or Gooch?

Think it’s pretty viable to say a similar career may have happened to Hayden if he had to bat in England, Gooch didn’t do great in Australia either but better there than Hayden in England. Like to bump Gooch up for his ability against quality attacks but can only go so far when considering his...

www.cricketweb.net

Gooch's placement kinda confuses me considering he beat Inzi and Amla who both should son Hayden

Inzamam vs Gooch vs Chanderpaul

.

www.cricketweb.net

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Gooch's placement kinda confuses me considering he beat Inzi and Amla who both should son Hayden

Inzamam vs Gooch vs Chanderpaul

.

www.cricketweb.net

The results change depending on when you post since sometime different posters vote

 

[Johan]

The results change depending when you post since sometime different posters vote

I'm kinda confused too how @Prince EWS never realized Gooch was rated pretty well here lol, He has beaten a lot of decent guys on this site. Mahela/Amla/Inzi etc, probably just never noticed.

 

[BazBall21]

Beating Amla was a good scalp. All conditions no3 with a top class peak. Amla could turn it around with a bump though.

 

[BazBall21]

I'm kinda confused too how @Prince EWS never realized Gooch was rated pretty well here lol, He has beaten a lot of decent guys on this site. Mahela/Amla/Inzi etc, probably just never noticed.

Yeah and there are long standing members on here like @Red that rate him very highly. It isn't a new trend.

 

[Johan]

Beating Amla was a good scalp. All conditions no3 with a top class peak. Amla could turn it around with a bump though.

I wonder if the site views a big difference between Gooch and Crowe considering Crowe handily beat Chanders while Gooch had his struggles in the recent thread.

 

[BazBall21]

I wonder if the site views a big difference between Gooch and Crowe considering Crowe handily beat Chanders while Gooch had his struggles in the recent thread.

Crowe beat Gooch comfortably in an old poll. Don't think that would change. Gooch is fairly well regarded here but Crowe moreso I think. Who would you go for?

 

[Johan]

Crowe beat Gooch comfortably in an old poll. Don't think that would change. Gooch is fairly well regarded here but Crowe moreso I think. Who would you go for?

Crowe but I think it's very even, I don't really get why Gooch is rated away from people like Crowe and Boycott, he really does belong in their class even if somewhat inferior to Boycott and slightly inferior to Crowe (which is debateable if you ask me).

 

[BazBall21]

Crowe but I think it's very even, I don't really get why Gooch is rated away from people like Crowe and Boycott, he really does belong in their class even if somewhat inferior to Boycott and slightly inferior to Crowe (which is debateable if you ask me).

It's because he averaged below 40 before the 90s, but that was a schedule quirk. Outside tests v Australia, he averaged above 40 throughout (43avg before the 90s) and averaged 48 outside the ashes at the end of his career. And at least he had a great series home&away v Australia in the 90s so it wasn't a nut he never cracked.

He also didn't have a second weak opponent, incl the best attack ever who he happened to be the toughest individual opponent for.

Not every player has to play their worst matchup in unfavorable conditions disproportinnately.