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Barry Richards vs Mike Procter

Better FC cricketer


  • Total voters
    21

Coronis

International Coach
You do love the drama, or chaos.

Imran easily for me, in addition to the batting he also brings the added dimension of reverse. Rated well ahead of Gavaskar on my list.
I’d just like consistency… since you say Imran easily over Gavaskar but then are still making arguments for Richards over Procter.

And you’re doing the reverse, Procter > Richards but Gavaskar > Imran?

I’m not the only one seeing this, right?
 
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CricketFan90s

State Vice-Captain
When Gavaskar Retired he was the highest run scorer and first to get 10,000 Runs in Test Cricket and also 34 Centuries was a record. He dominated West Indies, Australia and Pakistan and had a moderate success against England and New Zealand. Best Opener in the History of the Game taking into context the quality of Fast Bowling he faced. He also won World Championship of Cricket in ODI as Captain in 1985 defeating Pakistan. But Imran has to be rated slightly ahead of Gavaskar due to the Allround abilities of being a bowler, batsmen and captain.
 

kyear2

International Coach
I’d just like consistency… since you say Imran easily over Gavaskar but then are still making arguments for Richards over Procter.



And you’re doing the reverse, Procter > Richards but Gavaskar > Imran?

I’m not the only one seeing this, right?
Because they are different players, and all players who played the same position can't be seen monolithically. To say all the bowling all-rounders must be rated above all the opening batsmen, or even vice versa is idiotic. Not to mention, I still haven't voted in the poll.

Barry for me is unique among post war openers, and why I hold him in such high esteem, of this you're well aware. Which pisses you off for some reason.

Not everyone will see everything the way you do.

You just love to pop in and out just causing small uproars, while more often than not, not contributing opinions of your own.
 

kyear2

International Coach
When Gavaskar Retired he was the highest run scorer and first to get 10,000 Runs in Test Cricket and also 34 Centuries was a record. He dominated West Indies, Australia and Pakistan and had a moderate success against England and New Zealand. Best Opener in the History of the Game taking into context the quality of Fast Bowling he faced. He also won World Championship of Cricket in ODI as Captain in 1985 defeating Pakistan. But Imran has to be rated slightly ahead of Gavaskar due to the Allround abilities of being a bowler, batsmen and captain.
Don't think at any point he was seen to be greater than Hobbs, possibly not Hutton either.
 

Coronis

International Coach
Because they are different players, and all players who played the same position can't be seen monolithically. To say all the bowling all-rounders must be rated above all the opening batsmen, or even vice versa is idiotic. Not to mention, I still haven't voted in the poll.

Barry for me is unique among post war openers, and why I hold him in such high esteem, of this you're well aware. Which pisses you off for some reason.

Not everyone will see everything the way you do.

You just love to pop in and out just causing small uproars, while more often than not, not contributing opinions of your own.
No, not all players. However these guys played in the same roles, in an overlapping time period and have similar FC stats, with Richards and Procter having slightly better FC stats than Gavaskar and Imran respectively, whose FC stats are both practically identical to their test stats.

Yet Imran is “easily” better than Procter and you still haven’t even voted on the poll (idk, hedging your bets?) despite posting arguments clearly in favour of Richards.

The reason it pisses me off is because you literally only **** Richards.

I had an opinion to contribute, I voted on the poll. I also posted some stats for context to help out some people. I’ve already previously made it known in other threads how I feel about both these players. You just can’t handle people calling out your hypocrisy and inconsistency - lately its become quite noticeable in multiple threads.

Just vote for him and be done with it rather than posting arguments for him and waiting for someone else to vote your way first.
 

kyear2

International Coach
Richie Benaud picked Gavaskar over Hutton. Sobers did too. If anything, placing Hutton on a higher tier is CW revisionism reinforced by groupthink.
Well did say possibly. At the end of the day they are all part of the four elite guys at the top.

Barry there is with an astrix somewhere, followed by Smith, Greenidge, Boycott etc...
 

kyear2

International Coach
How can you say that ? Are you English ? Hobbs and Hutton were great but Gavaskar did everything right to be placed above them.
This is where this tribalism comes in, do I have to be British to appreciate what Hobbs did? He was the Master, the first truly ATG test batsman, the one Bradman surpassed to be the greatest ever.

If you want to say alongside, sure, don't think he's the best though. Definitely top 10 batsman to be sure.
 

kyear2

International Coach
No, not all players. However these guys played in the same roles, in an overlapping time period and have similar FC stats, with Richards and Procter having slightly better FC stats than Gavaskar and Imran respectively, whose FC stats are both practically identical to their test stats.

Yet Imran is “easily” better than Procter and you still haven’t even voted on the poll (idk, hedging your bets?) despite posting arguments clearly in favour of Richards.

The reason it pisses me off is because you literally only **** Richards.

I had an opinion to contribute, I voted on the poll. I also posted some stats for context to help out some people. I’ve already previously made it known in other threads how I feel about both these players. You just can’t handle people calling out your hypocrisy and inconsistency - lately its become quite noticeable in multiple threads.

Just vote for him and be done with it rather than posting arguments for him and waiting for someone else to vote your way first.
First off, I'm not hedging my bets, it's close. I do lean Richards, but haven't made that a secret.

Secondly, I said Imran is easily better than Gavaskar, not Procter.

Thirdly, I'm lost as to what I do to or for Richards...

Again you ignore the nuance of the situation, but it's consistent with your philosophical position.

Even though the stats may be similar, Barry brings a added dimension with his ability to score quickly. While for you that means nothing, for the most of us it matters and is a factor.

Additionally while Barry would have batted in the trickiest of conditions and counties, Procter didn't exactly venture into the trickiest and most testing conditions for bowlers.

All of these factors into my thought process, there's no inconsistency. But feel free to jump onto the bandwagon.
 

kyear2

International Coach
Richie Benaud picked Gavaskar over Hutton. Sobers did too. If anything, placing Hutton on a higher tier is CW revisionism reinforced by groupthink.
That's the second time recently someone's used the word group think.

One, most people here are knowledgeable of the game, and we disagree a lot, about almost everything. The term only comes up when the rare consensus is disagreed upon.

Secondly, despite group think being a bad thing, when anyone goes against it the attack ensues.

The obviously young gentleman is going against the norm, but when I say something about bat deep, it's heresy.
Ummm, probably group think is a thing.

Just something to think about.
 

CricketFan90s

State Vice-Captain
This is where this tribalism comes in, do I have to be British to appreciate what Hobbs did? He was the Master, the first truly ATG test batsman, the one Bradman surpassed to be the greatest ever.

If you want to say alongside, sure, don't think he's the best though. Definitely top 10 batsman to be sure.
Its not tribalism its Ethnocentrism. If Hobbs is Master then Gavaskar is Servant ? He is first truly great batsmen agreed but Gavaskar did everything right and better in his time and cannot be placed below Hobbs. An Opener has to face best pace attacks as he is exposed to new ball and Gavaskar did it effectively against 70s and 80s pace bowlers from West Indies, Australia and Pakistan.
 

kyear2

International Coach
Its not tribalism its Ethnocentrism. If Hobbs is Master then Gavaskar is Servant ? He is first truly great batsmen agreed but Gavaskar did everything right and better in his time and cannot be placed below Hobbs. An Opener has to face best pace attacks as he is exposed to new ball and Gavaskar did it effectively against 70s and 80s pace bowlers from West Indies, Australia and Pakistan.
Going way too far in that one, and if that's how you see the argument that's really unfortunate. And I'm a black man well aware of the evils of slavery, oppression and even relevant to this thread, apartheid.

I'm not going to get into it, because this forum has become so entrenched that you're not allowed to critique anyone, be it accurate or not.
But Gavaskar's record in and vs the WIs isn't indicative of how he did vs the fast bowlers of the late 70's and 80's. That's not slander, it's a fact. A lot of it was based on the '71 attack and the WSC tour.
That's not to say he did poorly against them later on, or wasn't a great opening bat, indisputably one of the 4 great openers and a top 10 batsman of all time.
 

CricketFan90s

State Vice-Captain
Going way too far in that one, and if that's how you see the argument that's really unfortunate. And I'm a black man well aware of the evils of slavery, oppression and even relevant to this thread, apartheid.

I'm not going to get into it, because this forum has become so entrenched that you're not allowed to critique anyone, be it accurate or not.
But Gavaskar's record in and vs the WIs isn't indicative of how he did vs the fast bowlers of the late 70's and 80's. That's not slander, it's a fact. A lot of it was based on the '71 attack and the WSC tour.
That's not to say he did poorly against them later on, or wasn't a great opening bat, indisputably one of the 4 great openers and a top 10 batsman of all time.
Jack Hobbs did not face too many teams but Gavaskar did that. Gavaskar played very quality fast bowlers like Andy Roberts, Dennis Lillee, Imran Khan. He definitely edges Hobbs and Hutton for the variety of quality bowlers he faced from Asia, Caribbean and Australia and England.
 

Coronis

International Coach
First off, I'm not hedging my bets, it's close. I do lean Richards, but haven't made that a secret.

Secondly, I said Imran is easily better than Gavaskar, not Procter.

Thirdly, I'm lost as to what I do to or for Richards...

Again you ignore the nuance of the situation, but it's consistent with your philosophical position.

Even though the stats may be similar, Barry brings a added dimension with his ability to score quickly. While for you that means nothing, for the most of us it matters and is a factor.

Additionally while Barry would have batted in the trickiest of conditions and counties, Procter didn't exactly venture into the trickiest and most testing conditions for bowlers.

All of these factors into my thought process, there's no inconsistency. But feel free to jump onto the bandwagon.
There is inconsistency as even as recently as this past month I’ve seen you post “I rate Richards due to all I’ve read about him etc and I haven’t looked into Procter’s career” You also only rate Barry amongst SA players from that era despite them all playing in county and some having just as or more impressive records as him compared to their competition.

Procter also brings an added dimension of scoring faster than Imran but that probably doesn’t count for you because it isn’t convenient. His fielding which was far superior to Imran’s probably also conveniently doesn’t come into it.

But because Barry can score a bit faster it goes from Imran being easily better than Gavaskar to Richards being ahead of Procter.
 

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