subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Kallis the bat, not the all-rounder.
Who was better?
Who was better?
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Allan Donald vs Kallis
- Thread starter subshakerz
- Start date
Kenneth Viljoen
International Regular
Donald was a bigger matchwinner
kyear2
Hall of Fame Member
I've noticed somewhat of an inconsistency on CW.
Somehow batting all rounders are expected to be of the standard of test opening bowlers to be seen as viable, while lower order batsmen are just expected to decent and that's more than good enough to be viable and subsequently rated much more highly.
He's a test batsman and one of the greatest 4th or 5th options ever, which is what he was.
That’s because batting and bowling are different.
A replacement level bowler is bowling the innings that a better bowler could theoretically bowl
Lower order batting is truly incremental
shortpitched713
Cricketer Of The Year
Lol at Kallis being a "replacement level" bowler. He played as a 4th or 5th bowler due to his overall role in the team, and I think it was a smarter way than Sobers ended up doing of consistently overbowling himself.
Anyone with eyes and who saw Kallis bowl knows he had more in the tank as a bowler than the limited, but useful role he ended up playing.
Anyone with eyes and who saw Kallis bowl knows he had more in the tank as a bowler than the limited, but useful role he ended up playing.
ataraxia
International Coach
Sounds like replacement-level to me
shortpitched713
Cricketer Of The Year
Replacement level averages 35+ with the ball if a decentish 8 batsman, or considering SA's bowling riches could possibly be roughly the same level as Kallis with the ball, but not have any batting ability. "Replacement level" to me indicates literally that, a replacement "next up" guy who just misses your first Test XI. It's not the average actual Test bowler.
Anyway, the standards we set with some of these all time discussions are a bit laughably high. Kalis is not replacement level as a bowler when his average is the same as Zaheer Khan's while not concentrating on his bowling (btw Zaheer Khan is also not a replacement level bowler, he is far better, and I know the comparison is particularly uncharitable to him). A Kallis who concentrates on being a bowler, or even a "true allrounder" instead of focusing mostly on batting would elevate it even further, but as it was Kallis was way better than a "replacement level".
Anyway, the standards we set with some of these all time discussions are a bit laughably high. Kalis is not replacement level as a bowler when his average is the same as Zaheer Khan's while not concentrating on his bowling (btw Zaheer Khan is also not a replacement level bowler, he is far better, and I know the comparison is particularly uncharitable to him). A Kallis who concentrates on being a bowler, or even a "true allrounder" instead of focusing mostly on batting would elevate it even further, but as it was Kallis was way better than a "replacement level".
kyear2
Hall of Fame Member
That's not how it works, I have seen this argument previously and have to respectfully ask if the even watch cricket.
Joe Root had to bowl overs in the Ashes, there are times when the rotation is extended and the bowlers needs a rest. This isn't let's give Kallis a bowl instead of Steyn, this is the new ball is soon due, we're resting the opening guys and the the first change needs a break. It's an asset and some times a necessity for a team.
So no, you don't compare him to Steyn the same way you wouldn't compare Imran to Javed.
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The problem is that while he was used more as a 4th bowler, his bowling use declined as his career progressed so overall it is hard to rate him.
Maybe he had the talent but it wasn’t used
If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one their to hear it…
Zaheer Khan had the same average bowling in much worse conditions but most importantly he did it for much more in each match
kyear2
Hall of Fame Member
Does it need to be repeated that bowling wasn't his primary job?
That’s why it shouldn’t be given too much
BazBall21
International Captain
His average is very flattering relative to actual output. A bit line Shaun Pollock with the bat. Can argue there was potential to do more with greater opportunities there too.
Adorable Asshole
International Regular
I rate Donald as 8th or 9th as a fast bowler. Kallis is more like 15 in my list. So not much difference tbh between their main skill.
Voted Donald tho idk why
Voted Donald tho idk why
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Adorable Asshole
International Regular
I voted Donald but is he really?