*Unofficial* England ODI team thread

[analyst]

Hussey wasnt thrown into the Australian setup, he was made to nurture his game at the domestic or List A level first before he played at the international level. Similarly Cook needs to do the same. Theres little point in putting faith in a player simply because he might actually turn into something useful by 2015.

That is such a flawed argument on so many levels, the suggestion that every player has to wait till he is 30 to get into a team . Okay, Ricky Ponting, Brian Lara, Sachin, Virender Sehwag, Shiv Chanderpaul, Chris Gayle, Micheal Clarke etc etc. . Almost every player in world cricket with some proof of success has done it the normal way. Why does he have to sit playing domestic cricket when he is already proving he can cope with most of them.

 

[tooextracool]

well he was thrown into the test team young and he's got about 10 hundreds so far

He also had the record to back him up averaging well over 40 when he made his debut. In the season before his debut he scored 5 centuries at an average over 50. If he was doing the same in List A cricket at the moment, I would have no reservations in playing him in the side.

 

[tooextracool]

That is such a flawed argument on so many levels, the suggestion that every player has to wait till he is 30 to get into a team . Okay, Ricky Ponting, Brian Lara, Sachin, Virender Sehwag, Shiv Chanderpaul, Chris Gayle. Almost every player in world cricket with some proof of success has done it the normal way. Why does he have to sit playing domestic cricket when he is already proving he can cope with most of them.

I think you have misinterpreted my argument. All the above mentioned players were scoring bucketloads of runs in List A cricket before they had international success. Cook has not. I dont see why this is hard to understand.

And could you please explain how Cook has shown the ability to score runs in the limited overs format in domestic cricket?

 

[analyst]

Well for one thing, Cook has already scored a century in ODI cricket which no one in the England team do anyway. That is a clear indication as to why he should stay there at the top.

 

[Rant0r]

I think you have misinterpreted my argument. All the above mentioned players were scoring bucketloads of runs in List A cricket before they had international success. Cook has not. I dont see why this is hard to understand.

And could you please explain how Cook has shown the ability to score runs in the limited overs format in domestic cricket?

i would expect him on talent alone to be able to adapt to one day cricket, more so than trescothick, but i'm prepared to be proven wrong, trescothick scored 12 one day hundreds, who would have thought

 

[Prince EWS]

it is completely relevant, my point being that players evolve and there's no reason why cook shouldn't be able to expand his strokeplay over time like a hussey.

And if he does, he'll make the team.

 

[Rant0r]

And if he does, he'll make the team.

considering the current form of the incumbents, it might be an idea to push forward that plan (or some kind of plan), australia had the benefit of letting hussey wait by having many successful years of one day batsmen.

 

[tooextracool]

Well for one thing, Cook has already scored a century in ODI cricket which no one in the England team do anyway. That is a clear indication as to why he should stay there at the top.

Well so did Joyce and so has Ian Bell. Look I have no issues with Cook playing in the ODI side, but I dont think he is ready at the moment. I think he needs to develop his game in Limited overs cricket at the domestic level first before he is selected to represent England.

 

[Rant0r]

i think they need a plan... at the moment i think they are taking the names of all the regular county players then just throwing 11 of them on the ground and going with it, then doing the same for the nxt game

 

[tooextracool]

i would expect him on talent alone to be able to adapt to one day cricket, more so than trescothick, but i'm prepared to be proven wrong, trescothick scored 12 one day hundreds, who would have thought

Err Tresothick was a damn fine one day player. He was inconsistent yes, but he has about as good a conversion rate as anyone else Ive ever seen and thats because when he scored, he scored big. In addition, he was excellent at pacing his innings, certainly never would imagine he would have ever played the sort of joke of an innings that Pietersen played in the 5th ODI at Cuttack.

 

[analyst]

By that statement you are implying the likes of Trescothick should have never had an ODI career and neither should Viv Richards have ever played cricket. County cricket is not like state cricket in Australia, its far too long a season and English selectors have struggled for decades planning an ODI side, everyone that looks half decent they throw it apart.

 

[Rant0r]

i remember this argument about the county system years ago, but it's been a bit clouded by the fact that as a general rule england have been half decent for a few years, compared to say the late 80's and early 90's.

 

[Rant0r]

Err Tresothick was a damn fine one day player. He was inconsistent yes, but he has about as good a conversion rate as anyone else Ive ever seen and thats because when he scored, he scored big. In addition, he was excellent at pacing his innings, certainly never would imagine he would have ever played the sort of joke of an innings that Pietersen played in the 5th ODI at Cuttack.

you missed my point, there was no real reason on face value why trescothick should have been so successful, but he was

 

[tooextracool]

you missed my point, there was no real reason on face value why trescothick should have been so successful, but he was

Why on earth would anyone not expect him to be successful? He had all the tools that I mentioned earlier to succeed in ODI cricket

 

[Rant0r]

Why on earth would anyone not expect him to be successful? He had all the tools that I mentioned earlier to succeed in ODI cricket

he had a really ordinary technique and a fairly moderate domestic record.

plenty of more talented players have failed at one day level, i'm saying there should be no reason why cook shouldn't be able to aspire to trescothick type success, although comparing his record to others that might be an ask

 

[analyst]

In England the media are very sensitive about ODI cricket and don't seem to understand that there is anything wrong with their focus towards it. It stinks, there never is a plan towards any world cup, it is the only country in the world that doesn't open doors for young players in this format.

I have a very low opinion of the selectors, it was briefly restored when they beat SA at home, that squad they had back then was excellent. Dimi Mascherenas was a very underrated number 8.

I also don't appreciate captain's attitudes towards ODI cricket, none of them seem to appreciate it much. There is no team building at all, its almost like they don't know what they are doing. Luke Wright was one of the key figures in England, he is invisible now.

 

[tooextracool]

he had a really ordinary technique and a fairly moderate domestic record.

plenty of more talented players have failed at one day level, i'm saying there should be no reason why cook shouldn't be able to aspire to trescothick type success, although comparing his record to others that might be an ask

Technique has never been a barrier to success in ODI cricket. There have been countless others with poor techniques who have succeeded in ODI cricket, Gayle for instance.

As far as Tresothicks domestic record is concerned, as far as Im aware he came into the England ODI side on the back of an excellent domestic season. If cook did the same I dont see any reason why he wont be in the side.

I do sympathize with Cook in that I dont think he did enough to have been dropped when he was. But I dont think he ever did enough to be selected in the first place.

 

[Rant0r]

it has been devalued a bit due to their being so much of it and there is now a 3rd format. i mean when you hear about a 3-7 match one day series in sri lanka, do you really a) care or b) remember it a couple of years later, as opposed to the 3 match test series that goes with it, so we can't really expect the players to be very passionate about it.

having said that, surely personal pride must kick in.

 

[Rant0r]

Technique has never been a barrier to success in ODI cricket. There have been countless others with poor techniques who have succeeded in ODI cricket, Gayle for instance.

As far as Tresothicks domestic record is concerned, as far as Im aware he came into the England ODI side on the back of an excellent domestic season. If cook did the same I dont see any reason why he wont be in the side.

I do sympathize with Cook in that I dont think he did enough to have been dropped when he was. But I dont think he ever did enough to be selected in the first place.

gayle is very west indian, if you know what i mean. you wouldn't teach anyone to bat that way.

and trescothick coming into the team on the back of one good season doesn't really surprise me, other countries may call his success an inspired selection, england supporters would call it luck. spose when nearly every england player is a chance to represent their country, some of them are bound to succeed

 

[analyst]

Personally if you are playing for the country, there is always a pride, tests or ODI's or even 20-20. Winning surely crosses your mind, winning ugly is the first step, winning attractive is the next, hammering the **** of your opponents the next.