Giles retires

[chaminda_00]

As long as the bat is pointed downwards (which it should be and almost invariably is), a leading-edge or thick outside-edge is rarely harmful.

Sorry, I just haven't seen any examples of a bowler offering any real danger by turning the ball only a couple of cm - bats are too wide and batsmen have enough time to adjust to be able to cover it all bar a tiny number of occasions.

Most wickets finger spinner get wickets even on turning pitches are beating batsmen in flight or drift. The only significant advantage turning have is that it more likely to keep batsmen in their crease, therefore making it easier to beat them in flight and drift. The amount of turn a bowler like Giles might get on turner, would make little difference in taking wickets, as it still very little turn. If you look back at his wickets on those turners, most are due to excessive amount of turn. Its just that when batsmen aren't attacking him, he doesn't go into his shell and bowl darts.

 

[Richard]

I was referring more to be given a first chance in the national side. The reason why he was give a chance in the England side was that his FC record was so good compared to others. Whereas in Sri Lanka it would have been par for course. Also Chandana got a decent run in the Test side, im sure he would have taken as many big hauls, even though he was a poor bowler as well.

Don't forget, if his record in England was pretty decent, in SL it'd likely have been exceptional (ie, 20-21, possibly even in the teens like some Lankan bowlers, both seamers and spinners, are).

Have you thought that the reason his FC record in English domestic cricket was decent is that he bowled well there?

 

[Richard]

It didn't turn a great deal TBH, it was just a slow, low pitch.

So all the wickets to spinners were from bad shots?

 

[chaminda_00]

So all the wickets to spinners were from bad shots?

No their ability to make the most out of the conditions like McGarth in the first innings. Apart from a couple Warne dismissals, none were from a great amount of turn.

 

[Richard]

Most wickets finger spinner get wickets even on turning pitches are beating batsmen in flight or drift. The only significant advantage turning have is that it more likely to keep batsmen in their crease, therefore making it easier to beat them in flight and drift. The amount of turn a bowler like Giles might get on turner, would make little difference in taking wickets, as it still very little turn. If you look back at his wickets on those turners, most are due to excessive amount of turn. Its just that when batsmen aren't attacking him, he doesn't go into his shell and bowl darts.

He could've never once bowled darts in his career and I'm very confident he'd still have done nothing when he wasn't turning the ball much TBH.

Turn does indeed help keep batsmen in their crease, but you're not going to get many batsmen out just with loop and drift. I'd say it's far more a case of loop and drift augmenting turn than the other way around.

If you can turn the ball and make it go straight (or better still turn the other way), even if you bowl every ball very flat, you'll still get plenty of good batsmen out.

 

[Richard]

No their ability to make the most out of the conditions like McGarth in the first innings. Apart from a couple Warne dismissals, none were from a great amount of turn.

Make the most of conditions by doing what? A slow, low wicket doesn't really offer much if anything to bowlers, and I can't see any way of getting wickets other than from poor strokes.

You need to move the ball sideways (be it through seam or turn or swing) to threaten, really, and obviously the more bounce the better as it makes any sideways movement more dangerous.

 

[chaminda_00]

Don't forget, if his record in England was pretty decent, in SL it'd likely have been exceptional (ie, 20-21, possibly even in the teens like some Lankan bowlers, both seamers and spinners, are).

Have you thought that the reason his FC record in English domestic cricket was decent is that he bowled well there?

The thing is 20 is par in Sri Lanka, not exceptional. Even teens doesn't mean you will get a Test berth.

Still think the reason he bowled well in FC matches in England is due to poor batsmen that he got the most out of. Im sure there was the odd batsmen that tested him and he fell to pieces, but they were too far in between, so they never effected his overall average.

 

[Richard]

The thing is 20 is par in Sri Lanka, not exceptional. Even teens doesn't mean you will get a Test berth.

Still think the reason he bowled well in FC matches in England is due to poor batsmen that he got the most out of. Im sure there was the odd batsmen that tested him and he fell to pieces, but they were too far in between, so they never effected his overall average.

Maybe they didn't attack him because he bowled too well to allow them to?

 

[chaminda_00]

Make the most of conditions by doing what? A slow, low wicket doesn't really offer much if anything to bowlers, and I can't see any way of getting wickets other than from poor strokes.

You need to move the ball sideways (be it through seam or turn or swing) to threaten, really, and obviously the more bounce the better as it makes any sideways movement more dangerous.

Making the most of inconsistent bounce on that pitch maybe. Wisemen, Vettori and Miller hardly got a bowl to turn sideways on that pitch. McGarth didn't get much swing, but they all got wicket due to varying the line and length to make the most out of low bounce and a pitch that didn't come on. Brett Lee was pretty useless in that game, cus there was no extra pace or bounce for him.

 

[chaminda_00]

Maybe they didn't attack him because he bowled too well to allow them to?

Maybe they were good enough in general to attack him. How many good players of spin are going around in domestic cricket in England. People say the same think about Werrakoon and co, but simply they make the most of crap batsmen like Giles did in domestic cricket.

 

[Richard]

Making the most of inconsistent bounce on that pitch maybe. Wisemen, Vettori and Miller hardly got a bowl to turn sideways on that pitch. McGarth didn't get much swing, but they all got wicket due to varying the line and length to make the most out of low bounce and a pitch that didn't come on. Brett Lee was pretty useless in that game, cus there was no extra pace or bounce for him.

Ah, uneven - sorry, you didn't mention that originally. That makes it a very different kettle-of-fish; a slow, low, uneven pitch is far harder to bat on than a slow, low true one.

 

[Richard]

Maybe they were good enough in general to attack him. How many good players of spin are going around in domestic cricket in England. People say the same think about Werrakoon and co, but simply they make the most of crap batsmen like Giles did in domestic cricket.

Thing is, though, Giles got good Test players out when he got his Test chance. He wasn't capable, like Weerakoon or any fingerspinner, of doing it on non-turning pitches, but he wasn't (like, for instance, Dawson or Batty) completely hopeless.

I am very confident that, had Giles bowled on turning pitches more often (and been left-out when the pitches didn't turn the way so many Lankan spinners have overseas) he'd have had a pretty good career.

 

[chaminda_00]

Thing is, though, Giles got good Test players out when he got his Test chance. He wasn't capable, like Weerakoon or any fingerspinner, of doing it on non-turning pitches, but he wasn't (like, for instance, Dawson or Batty) completely hopeless.

I am very confident that, had Giles bowled on turning pitches more often (and been left-out when the pitches didn't turn the way so many Lankan spinners have overseas) he'd have had a pretty good career.

TBH i think he would have struggled to adapt to Test Cricket, even on 'turning' pitches if he didn't play on those pitches that didn't 'turn.' The problem with only playing spinners on pitches that look like turners, is that quite often they don't turn and don't know what to do. Paul Wiseman is a perfect example, only got games on turners and still had a poor career, cus quite often those matches he played in didn't turn and he didn't know how to bowl on them. Then even on turners he didn't know how to get out Test batsmen, when a bit of extra turn made no difference. The other thing is plenty of Sri Lankan bowlers who only play at home have poor records, cus they match harden at Test level. There no bowlers who have ever really played well when just choosen on turners.

 

[Gloucefan]

The thing is 20 is par in Sri Lanka, not exceptional. Even teens doesn't mean you will get a Test berth.

Still think the reason he bowled well in FC matches in England is due to poor batsmen that he got the most out of. Im sure there was the odd batsmen that tested him and he fell to pieces, but they were too far in between, so they never effected his overall average.

Do you get to see much county cricket?

 

[roseboy64]

Sounds like a no. Can't see how England won so many games with the poor batsmen being produced. Faulty argument there.

 

[pasag]

Anyways, I'll miss him tbh.

 

[Nishant]

im actually quite sad to hear this announcement.....never was a real fan or anything...but we all know how much he had to go through with all his injuries and everything...it just would've been nice to get a happy ending, with Giles back into cricket...

 

[aussie]

Why are we just comparing him with Panesar?

Anyways this is how it is..

Panesar > Giles bowling

Giles > Panesar fielding

Giles > Panesar batting


Giles would be up there with the Mark Waugh and Carl Hoopers of the world in the bowling department.

Now this is taking it too far, he was clearly better than your average fingerspinner in Waugh & Hooper come on.

 

[aussie]

Now that Gilo has called it a day though, England might have a slight problem this winter when they go to Sri Lanka in getting a suitable backup spinner for Monty.

Don't think it would be wise to throw Rashid into a test match this winter at all, looking at the county scene Graeme Swann seems to be doing well so maybe he might get a call up.

 

[Kweek]

nooo my lookalike hero retired

oke he wasn't the best spinner in the world but very decent and always worked hard and in my opinon a good bowler! a very defensive one, but still.
sorry to see him go in this way hoped that he could play on for a while for warks.