Is Flintoff number 1?

[Swervy]

IMO kallis in his prime is just as good bowling wise as Flintoff in his prime. Also Kallis is a match winner in huge ways. Besides the term 'match winner' is a disaster in itself...so many variables...

yeah well you might be right...ok Flintoff can cetainly turn a game faster than Kallis,or at least has done more often in the last 12 months

 

[Swervy]

No the thing is not the Mark Richordson factor . Its the overall nature of the team . Pakistan as a team is may be worst but player wise they are the best and the way they play is exciting . Remember in one of his early matches , Abdul Razzaq hit McGrath with 5 boundries in the same over . Thats what people usually like to see , I mean unexpected performance , out of no where . Honestly England and Newzealand apart from these two players especialy and some others occasionally are quite predictable .

when did you last watch England play a test then>???

 

[FRAZ]

when did you last watch England play a test then>???

I never said England is bad , They are good , Just a bit boring for me . And offcourse in the recent times their enhanced performance and a better run rate is mainly due to Flintoff may be . I can just see the stats . Yeah its been quite a time since I 've last seen England play ....
And my friend No offence . Peace !!!!!

 

[Swervy]

I never said England is bad , They are good , Just a bit boring for me . And offcourse in the recent times their enhanced performance and a better run rate is mainly due to Flintoff may be . I can just see the stats . Yeah its been quite a time since I 've last seen England play ....
And my friend No offence . Peace !!!!!

no offence taken...but maybe if you saw this England team play you might have think a bit differently, they are playing good attacking cricket with a lot of flair a the moment

 

[tooextracool]

I wouldn't say that. Dravid has to be the best on form. And in reply to Swervy, Kallis has been better then Flintoff this year, remember the big run of centuries?

Kallis may not be doing quite as well with the ball, but overall hes done better then Andy.

i think what vaughan means is that flintoff is the most valuable cricketer in the world. its hard to argue with that considering that hes now a quality batsman, a decent bowler and a very good fielder.
as far as kallis is concerned, no he cant bowl and whether or not he could is irrelevant because vaughan is looking at it ATM.

 

[Scallywag]

What Vaughan really said was, he agreed that "Flintoff is the best cricketer at the minute"

That is a very valid statement if you look at Flintoffs performance in the last handful of test matches. And it was very poetic that he should pick up Lara for a duck so soon after Vaughan made this observation.

 

[Mr. P]

i think what vaughan means is that flintoff is the most valuable cricketer in the world. its hard to argue with that considering that hes now a quality batsman, a decent bowler and a very good fielder.
as far as kallis is concerned, no he cant bowl and whether or not he could is irrelevant because vaughan is looking at it ATM.

Don't be a fool. When did you last see Kallis bowl? Never make a stupid comment like that again.

And seeing as what Vaughan said exactly was that Flintoff is the best in the world, im pretty sure he meant that 'Flintoff is the best in the world.'

 

[Richard]

Don't be a fool. When did you last see Kallis bowl? Never make a stupid comment like that again.

Given that it's happened countless times in the past, I can't see it never happening again, somehow.

 

[a massive zebra]

Of course he isn't. Flintoff was close to being dropped after the Sri Lanka series, and since when were New Zealand and West Indies top class teams? Flintoff might very possibly be the best one-day player around but anyone who says he is the best Test player is displaying unfathomable biased ignorance, and lack of respect for players such as Dravid, Hayden, Kallis and Murali.

 

[lord_of_darkness]

New Zealand and West Indies top class teams?

What are you on about.. we are one of the top 3 teams in ODI .. and we certainly have a pretty good record for home and away series wins in tests..We just get unlucky a lot of times through injuries to our key players at some key times .. but if could pull out a good XI consistently we could easily be a good force..

 

[Kenneff]

Actually what Michael Vaughn said was that he wouldn't argue with statement that Flintoff was the best the best cricket in the world ATM (I think it was adam hollioake whch actully made the statement) and he is hardly going to disagree on the eve of a test match.

I think Flintoff is one of the most exciting batsmen in the world and becoming one of the most exciting bowlers too. What we are seeing is not just good short term form but a very talented cricketeer realising his potential.

England in the past under Atherton and Hussain did play very bland negative cricket but in the last year they have become very attacking and exciting to watch under Michael Vaughn.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Of course he isn't. Flintoff was close to being dropped after the Sri Lanka series, and since when were New Zealand and West Indies top class teams? Flintoff might very possibly be the best one-day player around but anyone who says he is the best Test player is displaying unfathomable biased ignorance, and lack of respect for players such as Dravid, Hayden, Kallis and Murali.

When was Flintoff close to being dropped?!

 

[tooextracool]

Don't be a fool. When did you last see Kallis bowl? Never make a stupid comment like that again.

actually i should be asking you that question.....the kallis i've watched has bowled total rubbish recently, in fact lets look at his stats.

2001-2002 SAF v IND 41.60
2001-2002 AUS v SAF 66.50
2001-2002 SAF v AUS 33.91
2002-2003 SAF v SRL 18.50
2002-2003 SAF v PAK 40.33
2003 ENG v SAF 25.86
2003-2004 PAK v SAF 87.50
2003-2004 SAF v WIN 64.20
2003-2004 NZL v SAF 36.60
2004-2005 SRL v SAF 128.00

eliminating performances against zimbabwe and bangladesh over the last 3 years hes only really had 2 good series.....1 if you consider that his average in england would have been around 40 if it wasnt for that up and down trent bridge wicket on which any half decent bowler like kirtley could have taken wickets on.
now you tell me, is anyone with those stats worthy of being a test class bowler? the commentators may still go around calling him an allrounder,but if he doesnt have the stats he cant be anything more than a batsman who can bowl.

And seeing as what Vaughan said exactly was that Flintoff is the best in the world, im pretty sure he meant that 'Flintoff is the best in the world.'

yes he said that flintoff is the best player in the world at the moment, not the best batsman in the world or the best bowler in the world....its the all round package and who would you pick over someone whos averaging over 55 with the bat in tests this year and 25 with the ball?

 

[biased indian]

i didnt realise being world no 1 is that easy.

i can point a lot of people here who still find it hard to have lara or tendulkar in the top 3

And flintoff with such a great record to be no 1 i dont remember any one caling kallis no 1 in the world when he was performing well.

 

[tooextracool]

Of course he isn't. Flintoff was close to being dropped after the Sri Lanka series.

im sorry what? you dont drop someone who averaged 24 with the ball after that SL series.

 

[biased indian]

yes he said that flintoff is the best player in the world at the moment, not the best batsman in the world or the best bowler in the world....its the all round package and who would you pick over someone whos averaging over 55 with the bat in tests this year and 25 with the ball?

all his recent good performance is aganist one team WI and they at the moment are not the best in the world

 

[a massive zebra]

2004-2005 SRL v SAF 128.00

It's actually 44.66.

 

[a massive zebra]

im sorry what? you dont drop someone who averaged 24 with the ball after that SL series.

You said it yourself you fool.

well to be honest with you at the moment im still ambigous about his selection. if he fails(doesnt get past 50) in his next 4 innings in the WI i would go on and say that he does not merit selection.

 

[a massive zebra]

all his recent good performance is aganist one team WI and they at the moment are not the best in the world

West Indies and New Zealand. Neither of whom are top class teams like Australia, India and South Africa.

 

[Swervy]

all his recent good performance is aganist one team WI and they at the moment are not the best in the world

no they arent ... but he hasnt done it vs just the West Indies, what about vs NZ or SA.

Since the 1st test vs SA last year he has scored 1233 runs in 17 tests (27 innings, with one not out) at an average of 47.42 in 1746 balls at a strike rate of 70.6

and his bowling is starting to become a real threat now as well.

I dont think Kallis or anone else in the last year has had such an impact on the performance of their team